Saturday Morning Revolver Quiz

[grendelbane]

A friend is trying to sell this one. Neither he nor I know exactly what it is. So, I told him I would post a pic on the most knowledgeable gun forum on the internet. I figured I would also post it here, just in case.

It is in good shape, doesn't look like it has been fired or carried much at all. The only measuring tool I had with me was an empty .44 Special case. It will almost chamber, though the cylinder is obviously way too short. I looked at my old copy of Cartridges of the World, and the 2 most promising candidates appear to be the .44 Webley, and the .44 Bulldog.


http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm90/grendelbane6/oldrev1.jpg

Any information, speculation, wild conjectures would be appreciated.

[GLShooter]

Here you go 455 Webley : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webley_Revolver

The prize is 100 rounds of 45 ACP, right? :akfa:

Greg

[jawjaboy]

The pic above doesn't appear to be a top break piece.

The Webley 455 is a top break...ain't it?

:confused:
.

[grendelbane]

Good try Greg, but no cigar. It does have a similar silhouette to a Webley.

It is a solid frame. The ejector swivels out like a Nagant revolver. It is not a top break, like the Webley.

I am beginning to believe that it is a loose copy of a British Bulldog revolver, except that it obviously has a longer barrel.

But what do I know?

[GLShooter]

What does the printing on the bottom of the frame say? And yes I am an idiot is is a top break!! LOL Oh, Well.

Greg

[grendelbane]

It says "Guardia Finanzia".

My current theory is that it is probably a Belgian copy of the old British Bulldog. Or, possibly Spanish. Usually, those had shorter barrels, and a different shape to the butt, but they were apparently made by a wide number of makers, so variations are going to exist.

It is definitely in nice shape. I wonder how it got to Kentucky?

[jawjaboy]

It is definitely in nice shape.

It does appear so, I noticed that earlier.
.

[jawjaboy]

Appears to be the coat of arms stamped there also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardia_di_Finanza

.

[grendelbane]

Well, that shows how much I know about Romance languages!

It would explain how it got to be in Kentucky, could be a war trophy.

Interesting conversation piece. I wish I could have slugged the barrel.

Good catch, Jawjaboy!

[jawjaboy]

Zdog a prolly know more about it than all of us put together.

He purdy sharp on this style/design, I think.

Romance languages? ME? :rofl:
.

[grendelbane]

Thanks to Jawjaboy's help, and a little bit more research in COTW, I now believe that it is a model 1889 Glisenti 10.4 mm revolver. This model was actually produced as late as the '30s, so the 1932 date might be accurate.

It fires a 177 grain bullet at 810 FPS, from the smokeless powder loading, so it was not too weak, for a 19th century cartridge.

Now that I know what it is, I like the idea of owning it. Strange how things work that way.

[jtrade]

Looks a lot like this Italian Revolver to me. This pic came from Firearms Identification Volume II (2nd Edition 1973) By J Ho I have in pdf format.

http://guns.jtrade.us/images/italian_revolver.jpg

[BigSlick]

Found some information that might be useful to you GB

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20italienne/ancien%20artisan/a%20castelli%20gb.htm

http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/PistolsModern.html#a pistols Italian


Castelli

History of the Italian revolvers “Bodéo” model 1889.


October 31, 1889 was officially adopted a new revolver resulting from the various patents deposited by the Neapolitan arms manufacturer Carlo Bodéo.


Its gauge was the 10.35 mm Glisenti. It was more known under name “thigh of lamb”, and this, in connection with its grips.


Many arms manufacturers such as Glisenti, Beretta, Bermardelli, and Castelli took part in its manufacture. It is interesting to know also that during the first War a part of the production was entrusted to Spanish industries of Eibar, but the quality of these last was not always nice.


The period of manufacture extends from 1889 and ended about 1930, but it was still largely used during the Second World War. During this long production, more than seventy modifications were brought and this all confused models. In the revolver which interests us, it is a model reduced with fixed trigger and a trigger guard, it was adopted in 1891 for the officers.


Biography of G A Castelli.


During the year 1900, a certain Mr. Giuseppe Toschi, twin brother of Roberto de Lugo di Romagna-Ravenna (very known Italian arms manufacturer) founded a company with G.A.Castelli, in Brescia, for the manufacture of revolvers and parts spare for the army.


The company functioned well until the beginning of the first War; however, in 1916, before died of Mr. Toschi, Castelli continued and thereafter transformed the company of a Manufactures Italian of Weapons. For an unknown reason, a few times later, it went back to work in its proper name. With its death in 1919, its sons Napoleone and Vittorio continued the production under the name of G A Castelli until 1921/22 thereafter they continued manufacture under the name of NR. & V. Castelli.


It is more than probable that the company ceased any activity about 1928.


Design features


Manufacturer: Napoleone & Vittorio Castelli


Year of manufacture: 1926


Number of the weapon: 1270.


Weight: approximately 770 gr.


Caliber: 10,35 Glisenti


Capacity of the weapon: 6 shots


Operation: simple and double action, rebounding hammer


Safety: Abadie system


Stripes: 4 on the right


Diameter at bottom of stripe: 10,85mm


Diameter boring of the barrel: 10,45mm


Length of the barrel: 89mm


Width of the cylinder: 34mm


Great boring of the cylinder: 12mm


Small boring of the cylinder: 10,80mm


Diameter of the boring of the bases: 13,5 mm


Depth of the boring: 2 mm


Remarks


Markings L D and A.C. most probably correspond to initial of the controllers.


It is wise to announce that the weapon in question has only the marking of the year of manufacture in Arab numerals (1926) but not, which is odd, the year of manufacture in Roman numerals, which in theory, was valid since the arrival of Duce to the capacity in 1922.


Max, Alberto, Alain.

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20italienne/ancien%20artisan/castelli%20modele%20bodeo%20de%20max-02.jpg
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20italienne/ancien%20artisan/castelli%20modele%20bodeo%20de%20max-01.jpg
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20italienne/ancien%20artisan/castelli%20modele%20bodeo%20de%20max-04.jpg
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20italienne/ancien%20artisan/castelli%20modele%20bodeo%20de%20max-03.jpg
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20italienne/ancien%20artisan/castelli%20modele%20bodeo%20de%20max-06.jpg
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20italienne/ancien%20artisan/castelli%20modele%20bodeo%20de%20max-05.jpg
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20italienne/ancien%20artisan/castelli%20modele%20bodeo%20de%20max-07.jpg
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20italienne/ancien%20artisan/castelli%20modele%20bodeo%20de%20max-08.jpg
Castelli
Italian Financial Guard Bodeo M.1889 Revolver
Italian military revolver, "R. Guardia di Finanza" markings. The right side of the frame also displays, "Crown over a Shield with a Crest of Savoy". This model was widely used by Italian army during the World War One and World War Two. Manufactured by Castelli, Brescia in 1914, as indicated by markings on the left side of the frame. Variation with a solid trigger guard. 4.5 inch long octagonal barrel.
Many thanks to "COLLECTIBLEFIREARMS" for the pictures.
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20italienne/ancien%20artisan/castelli%20autor%20collectiblefirearms-02.jpg

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20italienne/ancien%20artisan/castelli%20autor%20collectiblefirearms-01.jpg

[BigSlick]

Goodies to go with it ;)

Ammo :

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4183.html

This is currently manufactured obsolete caliber smokeless powder loaded ammunition for firearms chambered in 10.4 Italian Ordnance. It is made with our reformed cases (item #10.4ITALIAN) and a .423" diameter 179 grain cast bullet (item #423179) cast from our mould Jim423179. BE SURE YOUR PISTOL IS SAFE TO SHOOT WITH SMOKELESS AMMO!!!

Brass :

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,19.html

Starts at .95 cents each and gets cheaper as you buy more. $73/100

Mould:

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,7560.html

This heeled type bullet mould is made especially for the 10.4 Italian Revolver. Overall length .590", length of the heel is .255" and is .408". This mould works well with the 4D die set we sell (item #4D10.4italian)

$125

http://www.buffaloarms.com/prodimg/JIM422179.jpg

Bullets :

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,7564.html

http://www.buffaloarms.com/prodimg/423179.jpg

These cast bullets where designed especially for the 10.4 Italian Ordnance Revolver. Cast 20-1 and lubed with SPG.

$21/50

Dies :

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,459.html

4D Reloading Die Set for 10.4 Itialian Ordnance Revolvers. Uses 4D shell holder 8/8B.

$78.39/set

Looks like it might be fun, but I tell ya, before I dropped .42 cents each on store bought bullets, I would find me a .423 size die and buy that mould. I bet it would shoot just fine with a 50/50 mix at ~800 fps.

I imagine the brass might last a while, depending upon the tolerances in the chambers. It would make me crazy to drop .73 cents each on brass and have em split right off the bat.

I would definitely get a cerrosafe cast of each cylinder and measure em before I dropped any bucks for loading it. Or, a pin gauge, but it looks like the case is tapered a little so a pin gauge may not be a hell of a lot of help.

FWIW :dunno:

[grendelbane]

It actually has an almost decent set of sights, for an old gun.

I am going to advise my friend of everything I have learned. Most likely, some one else will want it more than I do.

Its not a bad design for its time.

It would be fun to shoot it.

Thanks every one.

[CZ93X62]

I think Fiocchi still loads it, too.