Reloading once-fired military brass is a PITA.

[Gashira]

I just felt like expressing that :).

As I mentioned before (http://www.glockpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=823), my Dad supplied me with 1200+ pieces of once-fired LC 30-06 brass. I'd never loaded rifle brass on my 550B so it was an entirely new process to me. I'll list the steps I took below and if anyone would like to chime in with their thoughts, please feel free.
Most of the brass was really dirty but still in great shape. Loaded all the brass into the tumbler in groups of 250 pieces for 4 hours each. The brass came out all nice and shiny.
Set up the 550B as a single-stage deprimer on station 1.
Placed 15-20 pieces of brass in a flat plastic container, hit them with some Hornady One-Shot, and rolled them around to ensure they were covered.
Ran the 15-20 pieces of brass through the deprimer and then cleaned out the primer pocket of each one afterwards. Each one then got dropped on the Super Swage 600 to remove the military crimp.
Once I had around 250 pieces of deprimed and decrimped brass, I threw them back into the tumbler for 30-45 minutes to clean off the One-Shot.
Wash, rinse, and repeat until all 1200+ pieces were finished.
Removed the deprimer die on the 550B since it's no longer needed, seated the other 3 dies, and then proceeded to run everything though as normal.Did I miss anything or is there an easier way to do this?

[Anvil]

Good Lord man! What a headache! I'll be doing the same when I get a Garand for sure!

I'll be watching this thread.

[Brass Nazi]

Did I miss anything or is there an easier way to do this?


Use a 1050

[Gashira]

Use a 1050

I meant an easier way with the 550B :wink5:.

[Gashira]

Good Lord man! What a headache! I'll be doing the same when I get a Garand for sure!

I'll be watching this thread.

Yep, this was actually for my Dad's immaculate M1 Garand.

[ISUSteve]

What was your powder charge and bullets?

[Gashira]

What was your powder charge and bullets?

48gr of Hodgdon Benchmark and 155gr Hornady A-Max bullets.

[MakeMineaP99]

48gr of Hodgdon Benchmark and 155gr Hornady A-Max bullets.

Is that a safe powder for a Garand? I'm not familar with it.

I run IMR 4895 and 4064 in the Garand to avoid any op rod issues. I may try Varget in the future.

[craig110]

I just felt like expressing that :).

As I mentioned before (http://www.glockpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=823), my Dad supplied me with 1200+ pieces of once-fired LC 30-06 brass. I'd never loaded rifle brass on my 550B so it was an entirely new process to me. I'll list the steps I took below and if anyone would like to chime in with their thoughts, please feel free.
Most of the brass was really dirty but still in great shape. Loaded all the brass into the tumbler in groups of 250 pieces for 4 hours each. The brass came out all nice and shiny.
Set up the 550B as a single-stage deprimer on station 1.
Placed 15-20 pieces of brass in a flat plastic container, hit them with some Hornady One-Shot, and rolled them around to ensure they were covered.
Ran the 15-20 pieces of brass through the deprimer and then cleaned out the primer pocket of each one afterwards. Each one then got dropped on the Super Swage 600 to remove the military crimp.
Once I had around 250 pieces of deprimed and decrimped brass, I threw them back into the tumbler for 30-45 minutes to clean off the One-Shot.
Wash, rinse, and repeat until all 1200+ pieces were finished.
Removed the deprimer die on the 550B since it's no longer needed, seated the other 3 dies, and then proceeded to run everything though as normal.Did I miss anything or is there an easier way to do this?

I've never used a Super Swage 600, but given the way it supports the cases on the inside of the base, I suspect it doesn't change the shape of the case. (Can anyone confirm that?) If so, I'd add the sizer die to your decapping pass. That lets you kill two birds with one (lubed) stone by not having to re-lube / tumble-to-clean-lube the cases later on when you first load them.

ETA: When I first read the OP I was thinking he was using a universal decapper. If a normal sizer / decapper die was being talked about, just kindly ignore everything I wrote.

[Gashira]

Is that a safe powder for a Garand? I'm not familar with it.

I run IMR 4895 and 4064 in the Garand to avoid any op rod issues. I may try Varget in the future.

I believe it's safe to use Benchmark in the Garand but I have yet to actually try it. It's a relatively slow powder:
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/general/burnratechart.php.

It's also mentioned over here (http://carnival.saysuncle.com/002449.html) as being safe too.

[cohutt]

Trim



Yeah, trim 'em too.

[Steel Talon]

I just felt like expressing that :).

As I mentioned before (http://www.glockpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=823), my Dad supplied me with 1200+ pieces of once-fired LC 30-06 brass. I'd never loaded rifle brass on my 550B so it was an entirely new process to me. I'll list the steps I took below and if anyone would like to chime in with their thoughts, please feel free.

Most of the brass was really dirty but still in great shape. Loaded all the brass into the tumbler in groups of 250 pieces for 4 hours each. The brass came out all nice and shiny.
Set up the 550B as a single-stage deprimer on station 1.
Placed 15-20 pieces of brass in a flat plastic container, hit them with some Hornady One-Shot, and rolled them around to ensure they were covered.
Ran the 15-20 pieces of brass through the deprimer and then cleaned out the primer pocket of each one afterwards. Each one then got dropped on the Super Swage 600 to remove the military crimp.
Once I had around 250 pieces of deprimed and decrimped brass, I threw them back into the tumbler for 30-45 minutes to clean off the One-Shot.
Wash, rinse, and repeat until all 1200+ pieces were finished.
Removed the deprimer die on the 550B since it's no longer needed, seated the other 3 dies, and then proceeded to run everything though as normal.Did I miss anything or is there an easier way to do this?

If I had 1200+ units of .308 I would also process it in batch. The difference being I would get all of the prep work done before sitting at the press. Not as mentally fatiguing for me doing it this way.

Tumble brass walnut and Nu finish
I lube with a spray bottle filled with mixture of ISO heat and lee lube place brass in zip loc gallon baggie spray and roll around. once the lube dries it'll stay that way until I'm redy to go to 3
Size and deprime
Tumble again
"If military" remove crimp with my dillion (all in one sitting) Great tool to have fast! this is only a one time need..
Trim with my possum hollow tool system , or my Lee trim system
Finish cases on my RCBS Trim mate. Great tool to have fast!
Prime with Lee hand prime (all in one sitting) Great tool to have fast!Store my processed brass until I'm ready to finish as cartridges. \


Peace
Steel Talon:coolgleamA:

[MakeMineaP99]

I believe it's safe to use Benchmark in the Garand but I have yet to actually try it. It's a relatively slow powder:
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/general/burnratechart.php.

It's also mentioned over here (http://carnival.saysuncle.com/002449.html) as being safe too.

Might be on the faster end of powders, looks to be faster than IMR 4895. The normal range of powder considered safe is between IMR 4895 and 4064. I'd cross check the data with a known Garand reloading manual. A bent op rod is a $150 mistake.

I understand several folks have loaded Varget successfully for the Garand, even though it's a bit slower than IMR 4064. I'm a purest when it comes to Garands, IMR 4895 and 4064. That said, others will work and I might start thinking outside the box soon.

[ISUSteve]

I stick with 4895. It works and its the commerical version of what it was designed for. Its definatly a gun that you want to use what it was designed for.

[DssG19]

Your time is probably cheaper than the cost of 1200 rounds of factory 30-06. Take your time and enjoy.

[freakshow10mm]

I've decapped and swaged 12K .223 cases. That sucked.

[ISUSteve]

I've decapped and swaged 12K .223 cases. That sucked.

Yours or how much did you get paid?

[Anvil]

Garand... 30.06 or .308? Which is better?

[MakeMineaP99]

'06 all the way!

[freakshow10mm]

Customer's brass. I charge $35/K to decap and swage, rounded up the the next 1K pcs (1001pcs will be charged as 2K for $70) plus return shipping (as much as I can stuff in a Flat Rate Box. Any "bad" ones get segregated, marked, and shipped back with the rest. The customer can take them to the scrapper to offset the charge of sending them to me for swaging.

[SWAMPMASTER]

Garand... 30.06 or .308? Which is better?

Get both and if ya cant, get the 30-06 as ammo is cheaper for now, but both are a RIOT

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

Heres a list of the powders, I would only stick with 4895, or 4064. that other stuff might damage the op rod

pic curtesy of BS


http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh130/biggungoboom/Garand_Data.jpg

[ISUSteve]

One is really not better. The gun was designed for 06, so I'd go with 06. 308 is more accurate, but you have really have to have a great gun and be a great shooter before you can tell the slight bit of difference.

30-06 is a hell of a lot cooler too. Go with the 30-06.

[kidcop]

If you powder chart is correct, it looks like your Benchmark might be OK. Since you are using GI brass you should back down 2 grains from starting as your starting point and stay 2 grains below the data period. I have loaded and shot IMR 3031 with good results. I like and mostly use IMR's 4895 and 4064. Generaly I found the 4064 shoots a little better.

A M-1 is not a rifle you go to the store and pull a pound of powder off the shelf just thinking it looks good. There is a burn rate you need to stay within. Most people use stick powders because for some unknown reason the stick powders shoot better at long range. The powder the Army came up with is 4895.

I have started playing with Varget in my 308 M-1 and it looks like I need to work in it some more. RE-15 is also going to get played with.

Do not use Federal primers. Let me say this again, do not use Federal primers. Federal primers are too sensitve for a M-1 Garand or any common USGI service rifle which as a free floating firing pin.

The only thing a Super Swage bends is the crimp on the primer pocket. I've ran a large number of GI '06, 308 and 223 cases through one and it works outstanding.

Another thing I've found with GI ball brass is the best money I've spent so far is uniforming the primer pockets.

So you think loading on a 550 is a pita.....I also weigh cases after first prep and each and every powder charge and load on a single stage press because a strong single stage press might give a little more uniform brass........

[Washington,D.C.]

Let us know how the Benchmark works. I haven't used it in 30-06. I have worked up loads with Varget for the Garand. I found RL-15 just worked the action too hard when loaded to desired velocities.

[Gashira]

Alright, you guys scared me enough to order a few lbs of IMR 4895 instead of the Benchmark. The last thing I'd need is to nuke my Dad's cherished M1 Garand. I've got CCI Large Rifle for the primers. I'll save the Benchmark for the 223. Luckily I only loaded a dozen rounds and it only took a few minutes to pull all the bullets.

And just FYI, the Super Swage 600 is friggin' sweet. It nails the pocket every single time and the new primers slide right in afterwards.

[MakeMineaP99]

CCIs will be fine in the M1, just avoid Federals like the plague.

[Washington,D.C.]

There is a popular mod to the Dillon power measure for IMR-4895 which normally doesn't measure well from the Dillon powder measure. The mod requires some machining. With a 155 grain bullet and military cases 47.0 grains of IMR-4895 works well. 48.0 grains of IMR-4064 or 48.0 grains of Varget. the Varget measures easily. IMR-4064 is the most difficult to measure. I like the Sierra 155 grain bullets but for the Amax bullets load to 3.24".

[ISUSteve]

I made this last year and am still getting around to update. 90% of the info is there, enough to start reloading safely.

Its at "That Other Place"
http://glocktalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=135760&d=1196968400

[Washington,D.C.]

I made this last year and am still getting around to update. 90% of the info is there, enough to start reloading safely.

Its at "That Other Place"
http://glocktalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=135760&d=1196968400

Most of the info you wrote is right on. It looks like some of it came from the Hornadt load guide and from other sources. For the load data it has it right for 168 grain and 175 grain bullets. The data for the 150 grain bullets is for H-4895 not IMR-4895. H-4895 is faster than IMR-4895 in 30-06. It is closer to IMR-3031. I have found from a lot of testing that in the 30-06 Garand subtract one grain for military cases.( 1.5gr for 308 mil cases). As to the primers when I first started loading for the Garand in 1984 the oldtimers said not to use Winxhester primers. They used to have the same sensitive chemical compound as the Federal primers. Winchester did change the chemicals and the design of their primers to be safer a short time later. They had a lot of PR about the change and how to tell the difference between old and new Winchester primers. They are about as slamfire safe as standard CCI primers these days. The safest are the CCI mil spec #34 primers and Remington 9 1/2 primers. As for adjusting loads for magnum primers the difference with extruded powders and CCI magnum primers is almost nothing. But a slight difference with ball powders. The hottest primer and biggest difference with extruded powders are standard Winchester LR primers which give about 45fps higher velocitiy. Old school was always to use Remington 9 1/2 primers in the Garand before CCI #34's became available. I like Remington primers with IMR powders and CCI primers with Varget but there usually isn't much difference.

From my experience in commercial cases

155gr bullet - 48.0gr IMR-4895, 49.0gr IMR-4064 , subtract one grain for military cases

168gr bullet - 47.0gr IMR-4895, 48.0gr IMR-4064, subtract one for military cases

175gr bullet - 46.0gr IMR-4895, 47.0gr IMR-4064, subtract one grain for military cases

Current "made in Australia" H-4895 is faster than IMR-4895. Older manuals will show H-4895 as being slightly slower and before about 1999 it was slower and closer to IMR-4064. Commercial IMR-4895 is usually faster than military surplus IMR-4895. Commercial IMR-4895 was made slightly faster after the Vietnam war in 1976. Some newer lots of military surplus IMR-4895 may also be this slightly faster powder. No IMR-4895 is as fast as current H-4895.

[Gashira]

Argh, I forgot about the IMR-4895 being a PITA to measure on the 550B. I've read about that in a few places. I'll give the Varget a try instead.

[Gashira]

I made this last year and am still getting around to update. 90% of the info is there, enough to start reloading safely.

Its at "That Other Place"
http://glocktalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=135760&d=1196968400

Great guide!

[BigSlick]

You might wanna give H4895 a try too.

Temp insensitive, meters like a dream. Just a wee tad faster than IMR 4895, but well within the useable range of Garands

I've used a wad of it over da years.

No use in makin it harder than it has ta be ;)

[Washington,D.C.]

Hmm I seem to remember H4895 powder grains being exactly the same size as IMR-4895 and larger than Varget. I think it would have the same problems on a Dillon as IMR-4895. For load data I found maximum H4895 loads for the Garand one half grain less for all bullet weights. Reduce by one grain for military caes.

H4895 Garand max loads in commercial cases, reduce one grain for military cases.

155gr - 47.5gr (reduce one grain for mil case)

168gr - 46.5gr (reduce one grain for mil case)

175gr - 45.5gr (reduce one grain for mil case)

I find H4895 more load sensitive than IMR-4895 in both pressure and accuracy. It can be accurate but a slight over charge shows more quickly than with IMR-4895. It may be less temp sensitive but the charge weights must be more strict which seem to negate any temp range gain.

I get best accuracy with IMR-4064 which is the most difficult to measure and the dirtiest. Varget loads very close to IMR-4064 loads and is the very easiest to measure. With a Dillon I think Varget is an excellent choice. I have some photo's of the Dillon mod for IMR-4895 / H4895 but IMR-4064 is still a bit of a problem. I'll try to find the photo's.

[gokyo]

Why do you need to get the one shot lube off. Does it not state that it does not effect powder?

[freakshow10mm]

Easier to handle when the brass is dry.

[Washington,D.C.]

I checked some of my data for velocity and pressure signs. In 30-06 Varget acts a bit faster than IMR-4064.

For 155 grain bullets in LC brass I find these loads to be amost the same.

48.0 grains IMR-4064

47.5 grains Varget

47.0 grains IMR-4895

46.5 grains H4895

[Gashira]

Quick update:

My Dad and I ended up using the LC 30-06 brass, Hornady 150gr FMJs bullets, CCI Large Rifle primers, and 47.5gr of Varget. We ended up making 199 rounds instead of 200 since I dropped a bullet under the dryer :). Dad was in awe of the Dillon 500B and was happy just dropping bullets into the brass on station 3 before I pulled the lever.

Needless to say it was a great time and an early Father's Day present. I'll be heading out to the range with him next weekend with him to fire off a few dozen rounds. I'll let everyone know how the recipe works out. Thanks for the help!

[Gashira]

Last update:

The recipe shot great. We had a few clips of actual military ammo to compare it to. Neither one of us could feel the difference in recoil. Good times for all :).