Single Stage vs. Turrent vs. Progressive

[Steve Koski]

Alright, would some of you brainiacs give us a run down of which presses shine best in what types of service? Thanks!

[MakeMineaP99]

Progressive is the only way to go for high volume pistol. I load about 2000-3000 rds a month (when I'm home, which is getting rarer) and couldn't imagine not doing it on a progressive. The LNL has served me well.

I'm almost to the point I could justify a 1050, if you're loading over 4000 rds a month, get the 1050.

BTW, Koski, Turret doesn't have an N in it. I guess they don't teach spelling in MT. :supergrin:

[Pitmaster]

I don't know, but I have the Lee Classic Turret now and I'm about 90% sure I will have a Dillon 650xl by Christmas.

[MakeMineaP99]

I don't know, but I have the Lee Classic Turret now and I'm about 90% sure I will have a Dillon 650xl by Christmas.

Look at a LNL before you buy a 650.

[LexDiamonds]

Look at a LNL before you buy a 650.

+1k

[ISUSteve]

I think everyone should start on a single. You learn more and it keeps you humble.

[918v]

or a four-station single...

[MullahElRon]

Sometimes, I call turrents turnits.

[Silverback]

Alright, would some of you brainiacs give us a run down of which presses shine best in what types of service? Thanks!


I really like my Redding t-7. It has replaceable heads, and seven stations on each head - built like a tank.

[WalterGA]

I agree on looking at the LNL before you buy the 650. You'll appreciate the 650 just that much more. Take a hard look at a Loadmaster, while you're at it! :supergrin:

[creophus]

I started on the LCCTP, and I think its a lot like a single, but you don't have to remove the dies. You just set all of them up at once. You can turn on auto indexing or have it off, its up to you.

When I started shooting competition, I convinced my self I needed a 550. I use the 550 now exclusively, but that will probably change soon with rifle brass.

I'm told that a single stage is perfect for the person who wants absolute accuracy with the least amount of money involved. Of course it may take a bit longer to produce rounds.

[colorado4wheel]

I will speak for pistol only.

Single Stage. Personal opinion, total waste of time. Unless you shoot really low volume why would you do this to yourself.

Turret. I started with a Lee Classic Turret. It's a auto indexing turret. It served me well at the start. Used it for 6 months or more. For a low volume pistol shooter this is a fine setup. Auto indexing makes the press pretty fast (200rds a hour easily). I have no opinion about other Turrets but for me a reasonable speed is needed for pistol shooters who use a decent amount of ammo. Your search should start here if you are new and relatively cheap.

Progressive. What took me so long. Oh, yeah, I was being cheap. I wasted money on a lesser quality progressive (cough, Lee LM, cough). I am now using a 550. For pistol a quality progressive is the way to go. Dillon 550 or better. Honestly, for pistol I would start with a 550 and never look back. Simple machine, plenty fast enough, top notch support, not finicky with any caliber, no tinkering at all. Newbies need a reliable press and good product support. They don't need to be tinkering and modding a press to get it to work right. Been there done that don't make my mistake.

[Pitmaster]

I put together this price comparison sheet for Dillon and Hornady. The subtotal is the cost to start loading one caliber. Total is additions for another caliber. I think the 650 is the best deal financially. But I may be/probably am missing something. The LnL seems expensive. I may not need seem stuff as it may be included in the press. Prices are from manufacturer's websites. I compared a few items on eBay and noticed quite a bit of stuff was cheaper from the manufacturer. Lots of items several dollars more on eBay. Especially the Buy It Now prices.

Square Deal ‘B’
339.95
Caliber Conversion Kit
76.95
Quick Change
89.95
Carbide Dies
58.95
Crimp Die
19.95
Strong Mount
41.95
Total
$ 627.70


RL 550B Press
395.95
Carbide Dies
58.95
Sub total
454.90


Case Feeder
229.95
Additional Caliber Feed
19.95
Total
704.80


RL 650B Press
504.95
Caliber Conversion Kit
71.95
Quick Change
94.95
Carbide Dies
58.95
Crimp Die
19.95
Strong Mount
41.95
Sub Total
$ 792.70


Additional Caliber Feed
19.95
Total
812.65

Accessories
Aluminum Bullet Tray
36.95
Cartridge Case Bin & Bracket
21.95


Hornady Lock N Load
455.40
Case Feeder
422.59
Case Feeder Plates
73.36
Shell Plate-(x2)
39.21
Shell Holder-(x2)
8.21
Dies-(x2)
55.35
Powder Measure
83.21
Total
$1240.10

[Zee]

Service has been an evolving thing for me. As in what type of service am I mostly interested in.

I basically got a lee turret and a Dillon 550 at about the same time.

Last summerI ordered a Lee classic turret and lots of accessories for it, as well as a classic cast single stage press, while I was waiting for a brother (not Slick) to send me a used 550 at a fair price.

Since it had been many years since I had reloaded, for practical purposes I was starting over. I got the Lee a couple weeks before the used Dillon showed up. Midway had quite the deal at the time. I reasoned that I could get reacquainted with loading while big blue was enroute.

The classic turret shines from an economical and simple yet pretty rugged point of service. Once I worked out a couple of bugs, like the primer arm hanging up inside the ram, got the press and turret lubed up where it needs lube, it was easy to learn and easy to operate. You can quickly pull out the case to check the charge weight, for example, something I was extremely aware of and still am, not having first hand knowledge of how consistent the drop was going to be.

Once I saw that using the pro-auto disk measure was really repeatable, I was turning out 100-200 an hour. I would say that I don't hit 200 an hour very often, probably more like 150. but that is a typical batch of .45, which is what I usually use it for.

I have now loaded over 3000 rounds with it, and haven't broken anything and can't see any wear....one time the decapping pin got pushed up into the die on a military case, but it didn't break, usually it will just push them out and keep going.

So, if that is all the volume you need, it gives simplicity, ease of use, inexpensive dies and accessories, and with extra turrets just leave the dies in. It kicks ass for the guy on a budget. And that guy can expand cheaply.

Lotta handle pulling, though....which leads to want.

When the 550 got here, it was missing stuff to make it run. So I learned a bunch just seeing what was missing and ordering it from Dillon.

When I eventually got what was needed and got it set up, there were other problems, the ram was incredibly hard to work, and the primer slide was balky. So every stroke had a lot of effort, and I had to push the slide forward every time - still, once I got in the groove, I was hearing click-clack as a round dropped for every stroke. It was worth the effort.

Six weeks ago I dropped it at Dillon to be redone, two weeks later it showed up all fancy and **** in a new box completely redone. First thing, I checked the ram.......yessss....smooth as silk, primer slide, too. Also, some small pieces were replaced. The dies were still in place, untouched. So, bolt it up and get to work.

In two hours with the now fully functional 550, I turned out more ammo, more easily, than I had to that point in the last 6 months.

You feel like you are getting something done.

It's tighter and more substantial that the turret. Since I shoot far more .40 than any other, for now I am just gonna leave it set up this way.

I am now addicted to the volume, as well as the quality of the finished rounds....that is where the Dillon shines for me. I look forward to loading on the Dillon, whereas some of the luster has fallen from the Lee.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have ordered a 550 from Dillon set up for .40, and spent less time trying to get the used one to work, instead just sending it in to be redone.

So, I went from re-learning reloading on the Lee turret, to wanting more volume and learning the how the 550 works. The Lee has it's area, it's true.....but, the 550 is where it's at for my foreseeable future.

My idea of service has changed to high volume, high quality.

As for the lee single stage I ordered? Still in the box.

To Mogollon: I sure appreciate you guys fixing me up. Great service.

[Steve Koski]

Pitmaster - You're double and tripple counting stuff. For example, the Dillon 550 comes with a conversion kit, and the quick change is wholly unnecessary, and the strong mount is for those who can't build a bench to the proper height. Carbide dies include a crimp die.

A correct list for the 550 would be:

RL 550B Press 395.95

Carbide Dies 58.95


That's it, you're ready.

[JLarsson]

Not to mention you can get the RL550B from Freakshow for $385.00 shipped!!!

[Pitmaster]

Pitmaster - You're double and tripple counting stuff. For example, the Dillon 550 comes with a conversion kit, and the quick change is wholly unnecessary, and the strong mount is for those who can't build a bench to the proper height. Carbide dies include a crimp die.

A correct list for the 550 would be:

RL 550B Press 395.95

Carbide Dies 58.95


That's it, you're ready.

I'll correct my comparison chart. I added a carbide die for two calibers.

Does the same apply for the 650?

[JLarsson]

Oh yeah - and the 650 doesn't come with a case feeder, though that seems to be implied.

[colorado4wheel]

Carbide Dies 58.95


Or get the Lee Deluxe 4 Die set for $30'ish. Any press but the SDB will take the excellent Lee dies.

[thorn]

Pit - couple notes on the the LNL-AP.

- $455 for the press is about $100 more than i paid.

- It doesn't come with a case feeder. Obviously you listed that as optional, but in terms of raw press vs raw press it skews the pricing a bit to have the LNL @ $1200+ and the 650 @ $800 (as the case feeder on the 650 would add a bit as well). Also, Midsouth sells it for $310 (not $420)

- The powder measure comes with the press; extra rotors/inserts are optional... i think my pistol insert was about $20-30, not $80.

- Shell holders... not sure on this. I don't have any at all. Perhaps that's required for a case feeder?

I'd have to check my receipts (which would be scary) but it seems like i spent about $400-450 total to reload one caliber on my LNL-AP.

Otherwise, having a chart is a good idea. So many choices out there, it's good for new users to have a total reference point for that sort of thing. :thumbsup:

thorn

[JLarsson]

Dillon DOES come out looking pretty good in the price comparisons if you go MRP. All the other guys can be had for quite a bit less through other channels. I'm not complaining 'bout that, just postin' in support of thorn's observations.

[thorn]

My bad, sort of...

JLarsson's post got me to re-read the original chart's explanation. It's definitely an issue of MSRP. Dillon's website lists prices that are just about in line with what a Dillon retailer will charge, whereas Hornady's site lists a price much higher than a Hornady retailer will charge.

thorn

[MakeMineaP99]

Pitmaster,

You're using MSRP on the Hornady stuff, not apples to apples.

[colorado4wheel]

Truth is with the free bullets offer you are getting a LnL for less then a 550B.

[Steve Koski]

1,000 bullets would last me how long? Couple months.

How long am I going to own the press? Three, maybe four decades.

Don't buy a press based on 1,000 free bullets.

Just sayin...



In situations like this, I'm always a proponent of saving for a couple extra months if necessary and buying what you think you'll be happy with for a long time.

[colorado4wheel]

Hey, I agree, I say don't buy a press based on cost. I made that mistake. I wasn't about to make it twice. Thats why I own a 550 now.

[Pitmaster]

All prices came off the manufacturers website. I made that up as a starting point for cost and the basics I need to buy. I didn't pick up on the case feeder not being included with the 650. I

My intent is to begin looking for a good price. I'm most likely not buying until fall or winter. I still need to learn some more via the LCT I bought earlier this month. I also plan to give Freakshow my business unless I can get a great deal somewhere like a garage sale, etc. Service does count for me.

[craig110]

Pit - couple notes on the the LNL-AP.

- $455 for the press is about $100 more than i paid.

- It doesn't come with a case feeder. Obviously you listed that as optional, but in terms of raw press vs raw press it skews the pricing a bit to have the LNL @ $1200+ and the 650 @ $800 (as the case feeder on the 650 would add a bit as well). Also, Midsouth sells it for $310 (not $420)

- The powder measure comes with the press; extra rotors/inserts are optional... i think my pistol insert was about $20-30, not $80.

- Shell holders... not sure on this. I don't have any at all. Perhaps that's required for a case feeder?

I'd have to check my receipts (which would be scary) but it seems like i spent about $400-450 total to reload one caliber on my LNL-AP.

Otherwise, having a chart is a good idea. So many choices out there, it's good for new users to have a total reference point for that sort of thing. :thumbsup:

thorn

I agree with your comments, Thorn. As to your question, no, you don't need any shell holders for a LnL, case feeder or not.

As a general comment to everyone, the problem with putting together a chart is the assumptions that have to go into it. Besides the unreality of using MLP (as many manufacturers like to have high fictional MLPs so that their dealers can claim big savings) the effects of adding a second caliber really vary with how that caliber relates to the first. The Hornady shell plates handle about an average of a dozen calibers each and there are only four casefeeder plates to handle the whole range of cases. Therefore, if the first caliber someone reloaded for was .223 Rem and they wanted to add .204 Ruger, they would need neither a new shell plate nor a casefeeder plate. If, on the other hand, the reloader started at .223 Rem and wanted to add .218 Bee, they would need a new shell plate but not a new casefeeder plate. If they started with .223 Rem and added .308 they'd need a new one of both. I bet if I looked hard enough, I could even find a combination where the second caliber would use the same shell plate yet need a different casefeeder plate. (Many lf the 7mm range calibers use the same shell plate as does .223 and are generally listed in the large rifle casefeeder plate category, but the feeder plate lists are incomplete and so I can't specifically point to one and say that I found the example.)

So, the bottom line, is what does a generic "cost to add a second caliber" mean? Really not much given all the variables.

[craig110]

Ah, found one. If the first caliber is .45 ACP and you add .308, you won't need a new shell plate but you'll need a new casefeeder plate.

Phew!

[MakeMineaP99]

All prices came off the manufacturers website. I made that up as a starting point for cost and the basics I need to buy. I didn't pick up on the case feeder not being included with the 650. I

My intent is to begin looking for a good price. I'm most likely not buying until fall or winter. I still need to learn some more via the LCT I bought earlier this month. I also plan to give Freakshow my business unless I can get a great deal somewhere like a garage sale, etc. Service does count for me.

As you know, I reload on a LNL, I'll tell you everything you want to know and more on Friday.

[colorado4wheel]

So, the bottom line, is what does a generic "cost to add a second caliber" mean? Really not much given all the variables.

And if you buy the press that works well for you and your needs the caliber conversions are not going to be the most important deciding factor. It's still a factor but I would still choose the press based on other things.

[Pitmaster]

As you know, I reload on a LNL, I'll tell you everything you want to know and more on Friday.

Sounds good. One of my beefs with the manufacturers websites is the information isn't very clear to help a new person figure out exactly what is needed. Especially the accessories.

[chewy]

Jeez. I just barely moved up from a single stage RCBS press to a Lee Turret after 9 years on the single stage! Why? Cuz I'm one cheap ass bastard that's why. Plus, I prefer to load in steps I suppose. I clean my primer pockets most of the time, prefer hand priming all my cases. Plus loading in stages allows me to watch the idiot box and chat with the girlfirend (they require that once in a while apparently) and she even helps me by bellin' cases after I resize if they need it. I'm cool with what I got. I'm honestly too cheap to get a progressive. Maybe someday, when I'm done payin' child support (10 more years).

[PsychoKnight]

BTW, Koski, Turret doesn't have an N in it. I guess they don't teach spelling in MT. :supergrin:


We've been thru this before.



The Lee Classic Turret is an example of a "turrent" press. Never use the term without an "n" unless you are refering to a specific model name, otherwise include an "n" when speaking of a category/type of press.