Lee Factory Crimp Die - Pistol

[Steve Koski]

Hit me with your pros and cons, likes and dislikes for this die for the Lee FCD for:

PISTOL
For Handgun Ammunition That Must Work!
Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die
A carbide sizer sizes the cartridge while it is being crimped so every round will positvely chamber freely with factory like dependability. The adjustig screw quickly and easily sets the desired amount of crimp. It is impossible to buckle the case as with a conventional bullet seating die. Trim length is not critical so this extra operation takes less time than it would if cases were trimmed and chamfered. Revolver dies roll crimp with no limit as to the amount. A perfect taper crimp is applied to auto-loader rounds. The crimper cannot be misadjusted to make a case mouth too small to properly head-space. A firm crimp is essential for dependable and accurate ammunition. It eliminates the problems of poor ignition of slow burning magnum powders.

[Steve Koski]

I'll go first.

I have a FCD for 40 S&W, but I don't use it, as it causes extra case drag when running the 550, and I've never found it to make a difference. Several times I had some reliability issues during load development, but they never seemed to be solved by using the FCD. So I use a Lee taper crimp die in .40 S&W.

I have one in 9mm (which I don't load much) and I do use it. I don't have a 9mm taper crimp die to compare it to, though, so I'm not sure if I'm getting any more case drag or any benefit.

[freakshow10mm]

I use the FCD for 357 Mag, 10mm Auto, and 45 Auto. The thing that I like best about it is the ease of adjustability. Screw the die in til it hits the shellplate (or holder). Raise the loaded round into the die and screw the adjustment screw down until it stops (where it hits the bullet). Lower the ram a bit, turn the adjustment screw down a half turn, raise the ram. Done. Very simple, very newbie friendly.

With some cartridges, not the ones I load, the post sizing part of the FCD can swage down lead bullets and induce leading issues. I have not experienced it.

I think for auto pistol rounds it is a great tool. For revolver rounds, I prefer Redding's Profile Crimp die.

[MullahElRon]

Never had one...Maybe that's why Im stuck out here in the desert in a smelly tent.

[918v]

I have one for the 45 ACP and Colt, but not for crimping, but for sizing 454 Casull brass when I seat bullets to 45 ACP OAL.

I have found the FCD to swage down bullets. This may not be an issue when using .451" jacketed bullets, but it certainly is an issue when using .4525" lead bullets.

[alank2]

Hi,

I fall into the Lee FCD camp that believes it is a bandaid used to mask other issues and that it actually might decrease case neck tension.

Good luck,

Alan

[ISUSteve]

Hi,

I fall into the Lee FCD camp that believes it is a bandaid used to mask other issues ...


I partially agree with this. When I first started reloading I had no idea what I was doing and nobody to turn to. (The only thing that has changed is that I now have you guys to turn to, still have no clue what I'm doing) My first 357 loads would not chamber in the gun. Now I know that I was not fully resizing the case because I stopped before my single stage cammed over. If I had a FCD, it would have resized this and I would have never caught it. It may not have been a catastrophic issue, but I was doing something wrong that I may not have known was wrong had I had a FCD.

Bottom line, not something for beginners, but great for people who know (somewhat) what they're doing.

[JLarsson]

I have used FCD's to good effect in several revolver/pistol cartridges. I agree that the supposed benefit of ensuring that "every round will chamber" could mask poor setup and/or technique in other areas. You should be able to use whatever crimp die you want and still have all your rounds chamber.

I use them because I like the crimp they provide. I have never experienced the swaging effect, nor have I experienced decreased neck tension. When I use the FCD for my 454 Casull (Cast Performance 335 gr WLNGC - .452, I believe) I never have problems with bullets jumping the crimp.

I just finished loading a bunch of .32 H&R Mag and the crimp is VERY uniform.

[918v]

I disagree.

People who know what they are doing do not have a need for the FCD. If you size your case correctly, seat your bullet straight, and crimp appropriately, then all your rounds will chamber and the FCD will be unnecessary.

I use the FCD to size 454 Casull brass LESS than a 454 Casull sizer does for specialty loads where I do not need or want any case tension. I would not use a FCD to correct reloading errors. I would rather disassemble the round and start over.

[soundwave]

Have one for .45 that I have used with some .451.5-.452" bullets. Works fine, but does not like the LNL ejection wire, been pullin em by hand thus far...I went ahead and ordered a Hornady so I don't have to worry about it.

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

I disagree.

People who know what they are doing do not have a need for the FCD. If you size your case correctly, seat your bullet straight, and crimp appropriately, then all your rounds will chamber and the FCD will be unnecessary.

I use the FCD to size 454 Casull brass LESS than a 454 Casull sizer does for specialty loads where I do not need or want any case tension. I would not use a FCD to correct reloading errors. I would rather disassemble the round and start over.


Intresting because I could have sworn that Freedom Arms says that there is the need for a HEAVY crimping die in the 4th stage. A seperate stage to be exact. Also Sierra, Hornady and Lymann all suggest a HEAVY crimp on 454 casull. So you claim that a standard crimp die is OK? cause if so i might as well just send mine back.:patriot:

[918v]

A FCD does not apply a heavier crimp than a standard crimping die. You can adjust a standard crimp die to yield a light, moderate, or heavy crimp by turning the die body.

The FCD does the same thing, but the crimp is adjusted by turning the threaded plug on top of the die.

You seem to be under the impression that the carbide ring on the bottom of the FCD adds to the crimp. It does not. It actually deccreases case tension in many cases.

[ISUSteve]

It actually deccreases case tension in many cases.

How so?

[WalterGA]

How so?


Probably, just be cause he "said so." There certainly isn't any scientific explanation! :)

I use the Lee FCD, not because I "don't know what I'm doing," but because I like the easy crimp adjustment and the quality of the crimp applied. Rarely do I feel the carbide sizing ring doing anything. I don't feel any "drag" on my 650's operation. Not being perfect, I suppose I occasionally make a small mistake that the carbide sizing ring corrects. Sounds like a smart idea to me, not a compensation for somebody's erroneous systemic reloading methodology.

FCDs aren't for everybody...just those of us who know what we're doing. :supergrin:

[Oreo]

I don't know anything other then the Lee FCD, & I've only got 50rds through it. But I thought it did the job spectacularly. It was stupid-easy to set up correctly. The carbide sizing ring never once made contact with brass. If someone gave me another crimp die for free I'd try it but I feel no need to purchase any other option in .40

[colorado4wheel]

I have loaded about 10K rounds using a FCD in 9mm. I have never had a single round that did not chamber in my Kahr, Glock with stock and LW barrel. If you use 1/2 a turn it provided a good even crimp and your rounds are very reliable. All that said, I recently bought a Dillon Taper Crimp for 9mm as I ams switching to Lead bullets. It's a PITA to adjust compared to Lee. I have just started using the die but it seems to be ok. I much prefer Lee for my Dies for ease of adjustment. Adjusting the die for crimp by loosening and relocating the die is LAME.

[slowride]

I've used the Lee FCD since day one, and I like it. I use it with all my 9mm and .40 s&w. I'm one of those boring people that finds something that works and doesn't change a thing.

I'm very partial to my 9mm, and .40 loads; they work for me, and I'll stick with my process. Never had an issue with chambering, or firing.

[funkstafunkie]

I used to use the FCD until I found out how to get the right amount of crimp with the seating die. Up until that point, I'd been under the impression that seating the bullet caused the case to bulge somewhere in the middle, and that's why the cartridge wouldn't drop into the chamber, and the only way I thought I could fix it was with the FCD. Now I only use them to post-size defense rounds, just to make extra, extra sure they'll chamber. Nothing against them, but for range stuff, I don't see any need to size the brass a second time if they already chamber easily.

[RustyFN]

I use the FCD for all calibers I load. I like to seat and crimp in separate operations. I think the FCD does a great job and is easy to use. Out of thousands of rounds I have only felt the post sizing ring come into play two times. I agree that you don't want it to fix every round that goes through it but once in a while won't hurt. I don't see how it can add extra drag on a progressive, I load on a classic turret but when I use the FCD I can't feel anything happening. I know it's crimping but can't feel it. I guess the down side is trying to crimp with oversized lead bullets.
Rusty

[4eyes]

I bought one for a 38/40 way back because light load accuracy was poor with the thin brass cases. The rifle crimper is a collet type that gave great improvement in "bullet pull" and accuracy. Cowboy shooters with 38/40 and 44/40 thin shouldered brass might consider it.

[ustate]

Like others have stated I use the FCD on my Lee Turret for all the calibers I load for but can only feel something happening on a small percentage of the rounds.

[918v]

Probably, just be cause he "said so." There certainly isn't any scientific explanation!

Here is a scientific explanation for those who have a fundamental misunderstanding of the principles governing the assembly of a round:

A round of ammunition is an assembly of the case, primer, powder and bullet. The case is made of brass. It is a cylinder that holds the bullet and primer in place under tension. This tension is achieved by drawing the case through a die which reduces the case's outer diameter (OD) and thereby reduces the inner diameter (ID) as well. Being that the ID of the case is smaller than the OD of the bullet, the assembly of the two stays put.

These two components, being made out of metal, carry certain properties of metals. One such property is springback. This nasty little detail can ruin your round. The harder a metal, the greater its tendency to springback following compression. Drawing a case through a die compresses it, but notice that the OD of the case is still greater than the ID of the sizer die. This is due to springback. The sizer die, therefore, sizes the case more than necessary to achieve a certain CASE ID to compensate for springback, which increases as the case work hardens from multiple firings.

Bullets are alot softer than brass. Jacketed bullets typically have very soft cores. Even heat-treated hardcast bullets are twice as soft as the softest of brass. When bullets are drawn through a sizer, they spring back a little, but nowhere near to what brass does.

So why is the FCD bad? The reason is that it resizes loaded rounds. Because of different springback rates between the brass case and the bullet, resizing a loaded round will decrease case tension on the bullet. By resizing the loaded round, the bullet gets sized as well as the case surrounding it. The bullet springs back a little. The case springs back alot. What just happened? See what I mean? This is not a good idea!

The FCD is designed to work with the thinnest brass and the smallest diameter bullet for a given caliber. For example, in 45 ACP, it is designed for Winchester brass and .451" bullets. The carbide ring of the FCD won't size the above assembly. But what if you are using Federal brass and a .4525" bullet? Such a round will be resized, and the bullet will swage down to .4515". Half your case tension will be lost right there.

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

SOOOOO, if this is true, WHY dose LEE not say so in the guide book. wouldnt that be dangerous and cause a risk of preassure and then liabillity???????
or is it just a money making sceem?

[ISUSteve]

I disagree completely, especially with jacketed rounds. Brass and copper/brass have the same Young's Modulus, meaning the same springback rates. If you do loose any tension, you are still applying a crimp. In your case, a 45 ACP, you are applying a taper crimp. So any neck tension lost by the resizer would be regained, if not increased, by the crimp.

The same goes for lead bullets. It will resize lead, but you still gain the crimp. The only problem is an undersize bullet, not tension.

[MONTEGOD7SS]

There sure are a lot of FCDs running on Dillons and every other brand and style of press for it to be such a blatant mistake to run one. If I had a set of complete Lee dies with the FCD, cool, if it was a set of Dillon/Hornady/RCBS/Redding without a LCD, cool.

[Rangerat]

918v,

Can I assume that using the Lee FCD is different than using Dillon seating and crimp dies in separate operations?

I am quite happy with the separate die operations for loading .40 S&W and .45 ACP for Glock, Sig, and Kimbers. Have no problem with setback after multiple chambering. I minimally flare the brass so I do crimp to eliminate what flare remains.

Still learning.

[MakeMineaP99]

I disagree completely, especially with jacketed rounds. Brass and copper/brass have the same Young's Modulus, meaning the same springback rates. If you do loose any tension, you are still applying a crimp. In your case, a 45 ACP, you are applying a taper crimp. So any neck tension lost by the resizer would be regained, if not increased, by the crimp.

The same goes for lead bullets. It will resize lead, but you still gain the crimp. The only problem is an undersize bullet, not tension.

Spring back is not soley a function of Young's Modulus, you'd have to take into account bending, whether it be a point load, distributed load, etc. Note that even the best FEA packages have difficulty predicting spring back.

Furthermore, the taper crimp is applied to the case mouth, not the entire bearing surface of the bullet, so what 918v says is true, except for the area that is crimped, given the right set of circumstances.

[colorado4wheel]

918v,

Can I assume that using the Lee FCD is different than using Dillon seating and crimp dies in separate operations?

I am quite happy with the separate die operations for loading .40 S&W and .45 ACP for Glock, Sig, and Kimbers. Have no problem with setback after multiple chambering. I minimally flare the brass so I do crimp to eliminate what flare remains.

Still learning.

Yes, because the Dillon Crimp Die does not size. Niether does the Lee or any other crimp die. The FCD IS NOT ONLY a crimp die. It also post sizes after the bullet is set. Don't be afraid of the Lee Crimp die because of this conversation about the FCD. Two different animals. I would trade my Dillon Taper Crimp Die for a LEE Taper crimp die and 10$ (thats the cost difference between the two) any time any place. That Dillon Crimp Die is nothing special and the Lee seems much nicer to me.

[Tree Rat]

I think the FCD is doing a sometimes required function in the wrong step.

I like the concept of the Lee U die at the sizing station where your sizing operation should take place. Sizes .001 more on average and farther down on the case where it's usually needed.

Crimping is for crimping.....sizing is sizing. Don't mix the two operations up with gimmick gadgets........you know......if you really know what your doing.


TR

[Oreo]

I have an experience to lend towards 918v's rationale.

When I was setting up my press & dies at first I didn't know how the FCD was supposed to work, so by accident I crimped the case the entire depth of the seated bullet. To my surprise I could squeeze this round between my thumb & index finger & cause a small but measurable shortening of the OAL. There was insufficient case tension in spite of the extreme crimp, just as 918v described.

However, when I read the directions & got the lee FCD set up properly, with only a tiny band of crimp just at the rim of the case there was enough tension to hold the bullet securely against my best manual efforts to set the bullet back.

In either of these, the carbide sizer ring on the FCD never made contact with the case. It seems to me that if it needed to, the bullet & case would be significantly oversized, and indeed the crimp tension would be fubar afterwards. However, when all is set up properly the Lee FCD does a fine job.

[WalterGA]

Those of us who DO know what we're doing know that using a Lee FCD isn't mixing sizing with crimping. Sizing is done at the first step. The carbide POST-sizing ring on the FCD doesn't size to the same degree that a "regular" sizing die. It just smooths out the occasional slight bulge that one might encounter.

I know I'm repeating myself, but, then, when trying to dialogue with those as thick as a post, sometimes that's necessary. Does anybody here with any brains really think that thousands of Lee FCDs are used, simply because those using them "don't know what they're doing?" That's absurd and simpleminded.

[Oreo]

What WalterGA said about post sizing is true. The Lee carbide sizing ring on the FCD is LARGER then the primary resizing die. Unless you're using it wrong, I can't see how it would resize a bullet.

[ISUSteve]

What WalterGA said about post sizing is true. The Lee carbide sizing ring on the FCD is LARGER then the primary resizing die. Unless you're using it wrong, I can't see how it would resize a bullet.

It doesn't with jacketed bullets. It can with lead bullets; my FCD has resized two of my lead rounds.

[colorado4wheel]

What WalterGA said about post sizing is true. The Lee carbide sizing ring on the FCD is LARGER then the primary resizing die. Unless you're using it wrong, I can't see how it would resize a bullet.

It's not so simple. The 9mm for instance is a taper round. If the FCD did no sizing on a case properly made then you should be able to back the crimp portion out and drop the cartridge with bullet into the sizing die. It should seat fully with minimal resistance. I just tried a 9mm loaded with a 142 gr lead bullet. For those that load 140+gr 9mm you know the these large bullets will bulge the bottom of a 9mm case a little. That round only went 1/2 into the FCD before hitting major resistance. A 115gr 9mm will drop in and out free and clear just like when you drop it into a barrel. So yes and no. This is why I have a Dillon Taper Crimp Die for my Lead 142 gr 9mm rounds.

[918v]

I disagree completely, especially with jacketed rounds. Brass and copper/brass have the same Young's Modulus, meaning the same springback rates. If you do loose any tension, you are still applying a crimp. In your case, a 45 ACP, you are applying a taper crimp. So any neck tension lost by the resizer would be regained, if not increased, by the crimp.

The same goes for lead bullets. It will resize lead, but you still gain the crimp. The only problem is an undersize bullet, not tension.

The crimp does not prevent bullet setback in the case. Case tension does. Like I said, the FCD is usually not an issue with jacketed bullets.

[918v]

918v,

Can I assume that using the Lee FCD is different than using Dillon seating and crimp dies in separate operations?


No, it is the same. The FCD is a crimp die, not a seater/crimper in one.

[918v]

Those of us who DO know what we're doing know that using a Lee FCD isn't mixing sizing with crimping. Sizing is done at the first step. The carbide POST-sizing ring on the FCD doesn't size to the same degree that a "regular" sizing die. It just smooths out the occasional slight bulge that one might encounter.



Of course the FCD does not size to the same degree as a regular sizer. I never said it did. It sizes much less, but still SIZES anything over the nominal bullet diameter, such as .452" and larger bullets in the case of the 45 ACP or .430" and larger bullets in the 44 Mag/Special application. if you have a S&W with .433" cylinder throats, the FCD will cause an unbelievable amount of leading.

[918v]

What WalterGA said about post sizing is true. The Lee carbide sizing ring on the FCD is LARGER then the primary resizing die. Unless you're using it wrong, I can't see how it would resize a bullet.

It is true ONLY if you use the nominal bullet diameter with the thnnest of brass. Use thicker brass or a larger bullet, and the FCD carbide ring will resize that bullet.

Remember, a .451" bullet in a Winchester case makes for a smaller overall round than a .452" bullet in a Federal case. The FCD carbide ring does not expand and contract to compensate for variance in case wall thickness or bullet diameter.

[918v]

It's not so simple. The 9mm for instance is a taper round. If the FCD did no sizing on a case properly made then you should be able to back the crimp portion out and drop the cartridge with bullet into the sizing die. It should seat fully with minimal resistance. I just tried a 9mm loaded with a 142 gr lead bullet. For those that load 140+gr 9mm you know the these large bullets will bulge the bottom of a 9mm case a little. That round only went 1/2 into the FCD before hitting major resistance. A 115gr 9mm will drop in and out free and clear just like when you drop it into a barrel. So yes and no. This is why I have a Dillon Taper Crimp Die for my Lead 142 gr 9mm rounds.

Lyman makes a boat-tailed 147gr. mold that will not bulge the case.

[Oreo]

918v, you're a post-whore.:troll:

[918v]

You're just jeallous cuz my avatar is better than yours.

[Oreo]

No it's not. I've just made mine invisible to you 'cause it's so awsome you'd spend the rest of your life questioning your manhood if you saw it.

[918v]

I question my manhood everyday, but it don't wanna talk back.

[Oreo]

:rofl:

[Tree Rat]

Again, I think doing the sizing thing right the first time and you should'nt have to compensate for problems elsewhere in the process.

Me thinks it's not even a matter of different methods for achieving the same result either. Sizing brass, even problem brass, with a U die in the sizing step is a better process then doing the additional dick dance with the FCD.

Crimping is crimping....and even that is overrated for pistol rounds as most of the time I just take the bell out plus a couple thousands, easily done with your run of the mill Dillon or brand X crimp dies.

In the exchange of ideas and opinons, I'm not going to going to say something about your momma or call you a dumb ass if you don't subscribe to my thinking......You don't have dialogue....you talk in absolutes with little tolerance for differing opinions.....and not even consistant with that.....

If thousands of FCD users is evidence that they know what they are doing.......then surely the thousands of those that load 40 S&W are of the same vain, something you opined against recently.


TR

[4eyes]

Come on, guys. If someone had taken 917z's position first, he would be on the other side of the discussion. His tongues and cheeks are larger than most of the posters here. And he'd pull both your legs.

It's all Koski's fault anyway. Look at who started this thread.

[918v]

No I wouldn't.

The FCD is a gimmic for suckas.

[Tree Rat]

A slight correction.....I insulted 918v once but got free ammo out of the deal.

Your avitar I do covet.


TR

[918v]

You promised to shoot it out of a ransom rest, you no good tree rat!

[chewy]

I picked up FCD for everything I load cause I could at the time.
My Cons:
*with plated and lead cast boolits, it re-sizes the boolit, often creating extra leading in barrels.
Pros:
*great easy way to get a good crimp on rifle boolits
*Works good with copper FMJs
* Works really good with resizing 9mm,40 S&W, and 38/357 mag cases BEFORE loadin' them up (basically resizing them twice to get that last little unresized hump outta' there). Especially if you're shootin' lead or plated boolits out of a LWD barrel. It sizes the brass down a lot further than my RCBS die enabling them to easily fit in the tight LWD chambers.
* the above is an extra step, but cast boolits run smooth as hell in them LWD barrels. They don't get crimped at the above stage. Most don't need it. But if they do, I just screw the FCD all the way down to where it don't get resized/swaged and give it a little tap just to get the any case belling addressed.

[Steve Koski]

I don't feel any "drag" on my 650's operation. :supergrin:Other 40 reloaders report drag too. I think it's mostly a 40 issue. Someday you'll load the 40, then you'll see.

[JLarsson]

If by "drag" mean a resistance felt throughout the stroke as the cartridge enters and then leaves the FCD, I don't think I've ever had that, even with my .40.

On the other hand, after the crimp, when the bullet pulls free from the crimp ring, I DO feel extra resistance at that point until the case is completely free.

[Steve Koski]

Yeah, that's it.