Handloaders

[Hornady]

There is a very good article in this months Handloader, about the Glock RX –Die. As some on here know, last year I bought a Glock 22, well it drove me craze trying to reload for it, until I found the G-RX die, now I am not new to reloading, coming up on 40 years of reloading, but new to the 40S&W.
I spent many hours on-line reading everything I could find on the Glock 22, the 40S&W, Glock unsupported Barrels, and the famous Glock ka-boom.
Well everything it took me hours of researching and verifying is know in this article.
This is a very good article, if you reload for the 40S&W, even in other guns than Glock, its well worth your time reading this.
It’s the Aug 2010 No. 267 issue.

[creophus]

Thanks for the heads up!

[VN350X10]

A couple of things to remember.....

1) DON'T use lead bullitz in a Glock in .40 S&W. Not bad in other, lower pressure rounds, but not so in a .40 or a 10MM.

2) DON'T try to "hot rod" a .40 S&W. Therer are no factory +P loads in .40 for good reason, it already runs @ 35K psi.

3) Use only new or a max of twice fired brass for high end loads, relegate more often fired brass to target load only status. Brass is CHEAP.....body parts AIN'T !

3) Be very cautious of brass that's layong on the ground at a range. WHY was it left there ? Of course, if you see a guy blasting w/factory ammo & he doesn't pick up the brass, GRAB IT !

4) Stay within the published data, loading manuals now seem to have a lot less "fudge factor" in them.

5) If all else fails, come here & ASK, if need be, send a PM if there's a question. Lots of experience here, no sense making the same mistake someone else did !

6) I've been loading since 1973, have a very large reloading library & am always willing to help another reloader, even if I need to do research. Don't need accidents in our hobby.

uncle albert

[jawjaboy]

Thanks Uncle, well said.

[Hornady]

All good advice uncle
The only problem, I go to some other sites, and there are times I wonder what the guy posting was thinking when he posted it, I like you have reloaded for several years, and picked up some good as well as bad habits, that needed braking.
Many of the points you listed are in the article I mentioned. But I have gotten into some heated arguments in other sights defending, just what you mentioned.
As most reloaders know, just because you have gotten away with a certain practice, dose not make it right or safe.
I have told more than one guy on a form, any information you get off the web, no matter from who ever it may come from, double check it, the Internet has a lot of BS that can get you in trouble fast with reloading.

[VN350X10]

It's not only the web......
sometimes the mfgr's. make a mistake !

My only Glock "KB" was due to a misprint in a brand new loading manual. Using a published STARTING load !
When the 2nd ed. of that manual came out, the max. load in #2 was 4.0 gr(!) less than the STARTING load in #1, with only a 2.5 gr window from low to high !
Can you say "OOOOOPPSSS!!!"

to the credit of the mfgr. all damaged firearms & other claims were taken care of INSTANTLY. I won't name the mfgr. because of their supurb service to the industry & hobbyists.
But they DID fire their entire proofreading dept. !


uncle albert

[CZ93X62]

350--

What is your view on Glocks in 40 S&W using aftermarket barrels with cast bullets? I'll pick up that Handloader #267, for certain.

[VN350X10]

Aftermarket barrels that FIT PROPERLY are excellent with cast buillets, as the cut rifiling works without any problems.
It's only do to the polyoginal rifiling in OEM barrels that cause problems, as the bullet to bore fit is really TOO good ! Sounds like an oxymoron (eg. military intelligence) but the "cork" fits too tight. Jacketed bullets don't fit as well as cast, as they don't obturate (sp?) on ignition like proper size cast bullets, & Glock barrels are made for jacketed bullets.
This is why a Glock will usually give a higher velocity than another mfgr. from the same lot of ammo, given equal barrel lengths.
Any lead buildup in a Glock barrel will cause a dis-proportionate increase in pressure levels, hence the possibility of a "KB".
The .45 cal Glocks are more forgiving to lead bullets than he other calibers, due to the lower pressures involved with the .45 ACP, and the rifiling is different than the other Glocks, in terms of the number of "lands" & "grooves".
Just the nature of the beast....I wouldn't shoot cast lead in an H&K for the same reasons.
Again poly rifiling, not traditional lands & grooves.

uncle albert

[CZ93X62]

Uncle Albert--

Your views parallel my own on this subject. My Glock 21 with its OEM barrel shot cast bullets wonderfully. Zero leading and excellent sustained accuracy, sized .454" or .452". I haven't attempted ANY castings in the Glock 23's OEM barrel, and likely won't. I do have a Storm Lake barrel for it, and it handles castings very well. The brass fired in the SL chamber seems a few thousandths smaller after firing than that fired in the OEM barrel, with roughly equal-pressured handloads and same factory rounds. No brass from the Gen 3 barrel shows ANY guppying, though. Just a little tiny bit wider after firing.

[snuffy]

I'm kinda hesitant to post this. I LOAD LEAD BOOLITS IN A OEM GLOCK! There I said it! Do I need to be on the lookout for the PC police?:yikes2::paperbag1:
I do not recommend a new reloader try what I just posted above. Get some experience before attempting this type of loading.

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/P5160030.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/P5160029.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/P5100027_edited.JPG

The trick is; to get a hard alloy, then not run them to max loading density. I get no lead build-up in the OEM barrel. Normal fouling is easily cleaned, like I was shooting jacketed, or plated.

Accuracy is normal for my M-22.

Oh, the load is 5.0 WW-231, the Lee 175 TC cast of 17-3, linotype-soft range lead, for a BHN of 18.

Oh, webby, why do my posts disappear if I leave the puter alone for a period of time? Like an hour?

[VN350X10]

snuffy,
Since you're not loading to the firewall, I suspect that your alloy is working well in your barrel. I think that a LOT of the problems are due to folks trying to run on the ragged edge of pressures. With no leading beyond what normal fouling is depositing, shoot & enjoy !
Like all mfgr's. there is a bit of difference in Glock barrels, looks like your's is lead friendly.

uncle albert

[blueline541]

I've put five or six thousand cast bullets down the polygon barrel of my USP .40. I did slug the barrel and size the bullets appropriately - I thought, but I do get a fair amount of leading by the three hundred round mark. Thanks to Chor-boy I can have the barrel very clean usually within a minute and then it's back to shooting.

[CZ93X62]

5.0 grains of WW-231 is hotter than I've EVER loaded the Lee 175 TC bullet in the 40 S&W. 4.8 grains duplicates the ballistics of my carry load (W-W 180 SXT @ 920 FPS in the G-23), and 4.0 will run the Glock--but just barely. The CZ-75B and the Beretta 96 takes/took 4.2 grains for 100% functioning reliability. 4.0 grains runs right at 795-800 FPS, while 4.2 grains goes about 830 FPS. OAL is always 1.135".

[Hornady]

As a rule I don’t think it’s a good idea to load cast in a 40S&W Glock, now before I get jumped on, Yes it can be done safely, but as the article and the research I have done on my own.
The problem with the 40 in this gun has as much to do with the unsupported barrel as the Rifleing.
When you combine the Rifleing, unsupported barrel, and over worked or stretched brass. Then add a novice or new reloader, that just needs very little persuasion that its OK to do this, and there lies the problem.
As with all aspects of reloading, and casting, you are dealing on a form with a multitude of experience levels.
And as most know, add a couple minor factors or simple mistake and you increase pressure to dangerous levels.
I respect Snuffy and know he has many years experience reloading and casting from his post. But I think anyone attempting this should be very aware, that as with many things in both Reloading and casting, you need some experience behind you before attempting some aspects of either.

[snuffy]

I respect Snuffy and know he has many years experience reloading and casting from his post. But I think anyone attempting this should be very aware, that as with many things in both Reloading and casting, you need some experience behind you before attempting some aspects of either.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Hornady. I would never suggest a new reloader try loading lead in a OEM glock barrel. Just saying I'm doing it without issues.

There won't be too many new reloaders that also have enough experience to also cast extra-hard boolits that WILL work and work well. I'm sure there's sources for cast boolits in .40. So an inexperienced loader could feasibly try it. Then, IF those boolits were soft, there could be trouble. So, I will edit my post with a disclaimer.

So CZ, 5.0 WW-231 is hot? I'll have to find out where I got that load, and see if the fired cases look fatter, have a guppy belly on them. I don't remember any problems while shooting them.

[Steviewonder1]

I got one of the G-RX sizing dies when they first came out and have run more than 5000 cases thru it and all are shot in an aftermarket barrel in my G-35. Full length re-sizing of Glock shot brass is required and the push thru G-RX does it well.