some 38spcl don't pass the gauge test

[Charly]

Last Saturday I reloaded 300 rounds of 38 Spcl

Winchester brass on 3rd. reload
Vitavuhori N320 4,3 grs
Copper plated RN 158 grs
Federal 100 SP primer

During the reloading session I randomly checked a few rounds through the gauge and found out some would not pass smoothly the test.
After finnishing the 300 rounds I passed them one by one through the gauge and had about 70 rounds that would get stuck over the last sixth of the length. The other 230 rounds would pass like "a hot iron through a butter pile" in and out.

I passed the bad ones a second run under the seating dies which I lowered a bit. The crimp on the bullet closed some more but the last sixth did not change a bit . What am I doing wrong ? What is the solution to get the last sixth of the length to pass easier through the gauge ? Must add that my sizeing dies is already at its lowest position, don't thing I can lower it more.

[Blackdog]

Any chance there's a slight compression ring (wrinkle) near the base? I get this sometimes. Especially if I don't lube the cases prior to sizing. Winchester brass can be thin.

[Jerry Snyder]

Check you sizing/decap die and make sure it is just touching your shell plate. If might need a few more turns down to remove that last 1/6 portion.

JS

[BigSlick]

Yep.

If not, you might want to go to a Lee size die.

As you know, it has less of a radius at the opening so it sizes down a wee bit farther.

Otherwise, if the crimp looks good (not over crimped) I'd take a caliper or a mic to em and see just where the issue is.

If they all show the same problem, I'd check the head stamp to see if they're the same (bet they are). Win brass, just like Speer has some minute differences in head stamps. Some say Winchester, some say Win, some say WW, some say W-W.

Even though it's all Winchester, not all is the exactly same, like BD says, some of it can be kinda thin.

If that's the case, I'd pull em.

[Charly]

here come some info data on your comments:

-yes, the base of the "bad" rounds are having a wrinkle, even more like a bump
-impossible to lower the sizing/decaping dies as it is as low as the threads would allow
-all the cases have "Winchester" on them but there are not from the same batch, some even have a canelure running in the middle of the case, but the "bad" rounds are not batch-related

[Blackdog]

I've also had some wrinkled cases when I was crimping/seating at the same time, and had the die body set too low (excessive crimp). One problem with mixed headstamp or batches is that not all cases are the same length. This leads to inconsistent crimp results. I recently had this happen with some LSWC loads in .357 mag.

[Charly]

I must try to have some pix of the rounds to show.
Will try if I can find the time to take pix & post for you to see.

[fredj338]

Are you crimping enough or maybe too much? Either will cause a failure to fit a case gage. I actually ahve never seen a rev case not get sized enough to fit a chamber, regardless of dies.

[Charly]

Are you crimping enough or maybe too much? Either will cause a failure to fit a case gage. I actually ahve never seen a rev case not get sized enough to fit a chamber, regardless of dies.

crimping problem will result in not entering the gauge (or the chamber).

my problem is at the bottom of the round, not the top.

I have a kind of 'bulge' in the last part of the case.

[BigSlick]

Got any pics Charly ?

[Charly]

not yet BigSlick. Will try to shoot some soon (I mean pix, of course! :) )

[Charly]

here are some pixs, I am not sure it shows ...

[Mogollon]

Charly,
Try gaging some cases that are sized only. I suspect the bulge is occuring in either the seating or crimping die, from too much downward pressure. Whose dies are you using?

[GLShooter]

here come some info data on your comments:

-yes, the base of the "bad" rounds are having a wrinkle, even more like a bump
-impossible to lower the sizing/decaping dies as it is as low as the threads would allow
-all the cases have "Winchester" on them but there are not from the same batch, some even have a canelure running in the middle of the case, but the "bad" rounds are not batch-related

I guess you are saying that the locking ring won't let you screw the die in all the way to the shell holder?

If that is so the cure for that is to take the locking ring off the top of the die and install it underneath the tool head. This will give you all the adjustment you could need if you just can't quite reach that shell holder/shell plate.

Greg

[Blackdog]

Yep. What GLS said. From the pics, it appears that the case is not being sized fully. If the die can't be adjusted to just touch the shellholder, a remedy to that situation seems the solution.

What dies and press being used? Pics of the setup?

[BigSlick]

Looks like Dillon size die radius from what I can see in the pic and maybe a tad too much crimp balooning out the base

[Charly]

press used is Dillon XL650
dies are RCBS
the over-crimping is the result of me trying to solve the problem (after that, I readjusted the crimp )
after some fumbling I succeeded to get the sizing die lower and that seems to solve the problem.
I will update you after I will have my next reloading session 38spcl but am getting in some very busy period so it will take a while...
(preparing for the Morroco Rally mid October and for the Dakar Rally in January...)

[BigSlick]

Thanks for the update Charly ;)

We'll be watching for news of the Rally :thumbsup: