Can I shoot lead bullets in my Glock barrel?

[Steve Koski]

It is time.

Here is my experience: I've shot about 25,000 cast lead bullets through Glock 40's with stock barrels (23, 27, and 35). I never hot rodded with lead bullets in the stock barrel, and generally stuck to middle or lower end loads using Unique and other medium speed powders.

When switching bullets or loads, I'd do some testing to see how many rounds I could fire before leading started to build up. With good bullets, I could get to ~150 rounds before I felt the leading was going beyond "minor." The lead bullets worked fine for me in the stock barrels.

I don't have any experience with Glock 9s or 45s with cast bullets in the stock barrel.

Please add your experience with lead bullets in Glock barrels.

[MakeMineaP99]

We just had this discussion, remember?

http://www.glockpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118

[Steve Koski]

Yeah, but you guys got over my head with your Finite Element speak. I want this thread to be for the common man, you know, the Obama supporter.

[MakeMineaP99]

I ain't even going to touch that. The FEA is a new tool for me, still a novice.

[918v]

If you use a soft enough bullet to obturate in the throat, and the lube is good enough to handle the velocity, then it won't lead.

[ede]

way back before al gore invented the internet and i didn't know any better i was getting 155gr. SWC for less than 10$ for 500 and loaded them for my glock. used unique with a low to low midrange charge, don't remember what it was now. never a problem with leading or feeding and accuracey was great. last winter i played around with moly coated lead bullets in the 40 and hated them, leaded up bad with just a few magazines. my .45acp GSSF load, yet untried in a match, is a 230gr moly bullet that hasn't left the first signs of leading in 100s of rounds working up the load.

[4eyes]

I've gone over 500 rounds in a G21 with lead rn and swc 45 bullets. Cleaned easily.

Shot 260 lead tc 40 bullets in a G22 and the cleaning was no worse than shooting 100. Cleaned easily.

357 Sig didn't lead but the lube gunk in the shoulder started to give light strikes about 60 rounds.

10mm was OK but the speeds had to be kept down. The 10 is the only Glock I have bought an aftermarket barrel to get bullet speeds into the max pressure range with lead bullets.


9 can be a real bastard. Some bullets will go over 500 and others will lead in 5 rounds. Bad leading tipoff is accuracy goes to hell very quickly. Getting poor accuracy with any lead bullet---STOP SHOOTING and check the bore.

[Hatman1793]

You can never judge the hardness of cast lead bullets just by looking at them. You need a BHN hardness tester to be sure, and most guys don't have one.
Change out your factory Glock barrel with one from Lone Wolf Distributing. Their lands&grooves stainless steel barrels are tops and cost just a hun.
Don't shoot lead in your Glock. You're asking for trouble.

[ddeaton]

If you use a soft enough bullet to obturate in the throat, and the lube is good enough to handle the velocity, then it won't lead.

Obturate, I am liking this site more and more each day. I will have to look that one up.

[ddeaton]

relating to my post the other day about me forgetting to change barrels before I went to the range. It was a great spring day, took off work at noon and high tailed it to the range. Only to find out after shooting my reloads that I had left the stock barrel in it. I have since went back to the range and put 250 rounds of lead reloads down my Lone Wolf barrel and couldnt hold a group with this barrel at all. I am gong back to my stock barrel, as now I have superpowers! Seriously, the stock barrel held tighter groups. Not saying much though, as I am not a bullseye shooter.

[yammerschooner]

I have had no issues pushing cast ww through my stock G23 barrel. I don't load anything hot though. I have an aftermarket storm lake barrel that I purchased to help me with the voodoo, but don't regularly take the time to put it in when I shoot.

The best thing about that Storm Lake barrel is brass is a dream after being run through it

[trickyasafox]

I shoot cast a lot in my g23 and a bit in a g17 and a g21. the g23 gets most of the work though. 175gr SWC mainly- but I'm going to something lighter- 150gr ish.

I haven't had any problems so far. I do get leading that is a PITA to clean out though.

[psyop]

Can I shoot lead bullets in my Glock barrel?

I do.

I also clean the firearm before swithing to Jacketed.

No problems so far and dont expect any. Accurate to with no min leading using right alloy, powder, lube combo.

ETA I cast my own

[Frostback]

I have been shooting lead out of my Glock 19 since I first got it in 1993, before all the doom and gloom types piped up. I have found that using slower powders in mid range loads results in very little leading, especially with my home cast 147 gr boolits lubed with Lar's C-Red and sized .357". I have gone 500 rounds between cleanings with no ill effects. I haven't shot my G-23 much, but I am having good success with medium loads, again with home cast and Lar's C-Red lube.

Also, just picking up an aftermarket barrel is not an option for me. Barrels are controlled parts that require a US export permit. I can get that permit no problem, but the issue arises on my side of the border. Any barrel shorter than 106mm is a prohibited device and can not be imported. A G-19 has a barrel 102mm long. I could get an extended barrel, but that would change my gun from class 12(6) prohibited to "restricted". Once done, it would be illegal to put the shorter stock barrel back in. Besides, the extended barrels look ghey.

Frosty

[dougader]

I fired over 10,000 rounds in my G19, mostly in plinking/practice and IPSC competition. The majority of these rounds were handloads and equally spread out with bought hardcast and homecast bullets made from straight wheel weights. Sometimes I water quenched the bullets and sometimes I didn't. They were the Lee TL 124 TC with anywhere from 4.5 - 5.0 grains WW 231 for ~1,000 - 1,075 fps.

Most of the fowling in my barrel was from the Lee Liquid Alox, not lead. I always used to finish up a match by firing a mag of jacketed bullets down the bore too. Like the poster above, I had my G19 before all the K'boom news was out; before it was known that shooting lead was bad in poly barrels.

I remember when a guy at our range got the first G22 and shot it in IPSC matches. Said it was the bomb. He was right. He was right. I was standing there when it K'boomed. Classic, with all the bullets, mag and mag spring laying on the ground. I forget his load. But as I recall it was a redline loading, maybe a little above book, with a hardcast bullet.

Imagine my surprise when I read on the internet that shooting lead was bad for Glocks? Maybe I was lucky. Dunno.

Sometimes I shoot hardcast lead in my G30 but its only a few light loads with 230 grain rn hardcast over 5.4 grains WW231. Just enough to cycle the slide. Never noticed any lead buildup and cleaning afterward is just with Hoppes 9 and a few patches.

[uncowboy]

:yikes:NO you should not shoot lead in your 40's . You can't see the leadding untill pressures are past critical. A blown case will follow. EVERY glock KABOOM I have seen was a result of lead shooting. My friend sells Glocks to a LOT of Police departments and he seconds my opinion. The 40's have too much pressure. Get an aftermarket bbl for lead bullets it will be safer and cheaper in the long run. J.Michael

[Frostback]

I shoot lead in my G-23 with factory barrel all the time. Again, an aftermarket barrel is not possible for me. I use the same formula as for my G-19's. I think that the condition of your brass is at least as important as anything else. All the failures I have seen are the brass letting go at the 6 o'clock position.

Frosty

[uncowboy]

The brass lets go because pressure is raised by lead restricting the BBL. You won't see it with the nakid eye . Use heavy duty cleanner and see what comes out. If you clean your gun well and regular Like every time you shoot it you may never have a problem with lead . Most people get too busey and let the cleanning go for a wile and the next thing you know you have a Kaboom. J.Michael

[Slim Chance]

Not as prolific a shooter as Koski, but I have fired a lot of lead through several different Glocks.
I found with hard cast bullets and moderate loads there was very little leading. Trying to push past 1000fps was asking for degraded accuracy. I shot 165 and 180 grain cast bullets in my G22 and G24 for the GSSF matches and never had a problem. I tried for about 850fps and reliable cycling. After all, the steel was set for 9mm and cardboard is easy to penetrate.
If I needed anything close to a factory load, I switched to jacketed.

[cvfl]

I shoot Kead hard cast in my G26, 400-500 at a time and no problems whatsoever. My Dad raised me to never go to bed with a dirty gun, so it gets cleaned same day. Have not seen any greater leading in it than I would in a conventionally rifled barrel.

[MCK45ACP]

Obturate, I am liking this site more and more each day. I will have to look that one up.

I found this on the MBC site.

The MBC Difference

Hardness-Optimized Bullets

Most cast bullet shooters don't know a lot about the properties of the lead alloy they're shooting because they haven't been educated about it. If you want to learn a little bit about some important cast bullet facts, then please read on.
A common conception is that when it comes to lead bullets, harder lead equals less leading. This is a false perception! To explain this surprising statement, it is necessary to discuss the physics of getting the bullet out of the barrel and how lead residue comes to be deposted in the bore. When the powder charge ignites, pressure is generated. This pressure is measured in “copper units of pressure” (CUPS) and expressed in thousand of pounds per square inch. The heavier the powder charge, the greater the CUPS. Naturally, the purpose of generating pressure in the cartridge case is to force the bullet out of the case mouth and on down the barrel.
Lead is a soft metal. Its hardness is expressed on a standard scale, called the Brinell Hardness Number (BHN.) The BHN of the bullet interacts with the pressure generated by the burning powder. The mechanism of this involves the effect of the generation of thousands of pounds per square inch of pressure which causes the base of the bullet to expand, or “obdurate”. Properly obdurated, the base will have expanded beyond its original diameter which has the effect of “sealing the bore” against the explosive pressure of the gases burning behind it. Properly sealed, and working in conjunction with the lubricant in the lube groove, the bullet will thus not allow gases to escape forward from around the base of the bullets, which prevents it from shaving lead from the bullet body and forcing it into the bore grooves (otherwise known as “leading”.)
This failure to obdurate (“seal the bore against onrushing gases”) causes leading which is a chore to clean and is a major obstacle to accuracy.
An optimally hard lead bullet is simply one which obdurates at a given pressure sufficiently to seal the bore against the gases which would otherwise “cut through” the soft lead (called “gas-cutting”, forcing molten lead into your rifling. A bullet which is too hard won't obdurate and seal the bore, because the gas pressure is insufficient to expand the base of the bullet. A bullet which is too soft at a given pressure will experience excessive base expansion and vaporization of the lead, causing leading.
There is a formula for optimal bullet hardness which is simple and it is worth knowing:
Optimum BHN = CUPS/(1422*.90)
The CUPS of your reloads is published in the reloading manuals. Take a typical .45 ACP load, using a 200-grain LSWC bullet – 5.0 grains of Bullseye. This load develops 900 FPS and is in common use among IPSC and IDPA gunners. The reloading manual shows that the pressure generated by this load is 20,000 CUPS. So, the formula for optimal bullet hardness is
20,000 / 1279.8 = 15.62
There it is! For this application – shooting a 200-grain LSWC at 900 FPS requires that you use a bullet with a BHN of 16 to 18 (round upwards a couple of BHN points for flexibility.)
You may be asking why shooters don't know much about this whole bullet hardness optimization business. The reason is basically that the large manufacturers, for ease of production, use a standard alloy for all of their cast bullet construction, an alloy which has a Brinell Hardness Number of approximately 24. Why do they do this? It's simple – one standard alloy simplifies logistics for the big manufacturers and, equally importantly, a bullet this hard ships well by standing up to getting dinged around during transportation. The fact that their bullets are too hard and cause leading and aren't very accurate because of improper obduration is something they'd really rather you weren't aware of. This explains why neither their packaging nor product information will ever refer to the BHN of their products.
Along those lines, how many boxes of cast bullets – from any source – state the BHN on them?
At the Missouri Bullet Company, we optimize bullets for your intended application. We don't take a “one size fits all” approach to manufacturing your bullets. Every box of our bullets displays the BHN, which we constantly sample and monitor. We take the time to create lead bullet alloy that is specialized for the bullet hardness that works best for you. It is a fact that we spend significantly more time alloying our lead than we do in making the bullets that come from it and we do this to provide you the right bullet for your application.
Try the MBC Difference. You'll be glad you did.

[BigSlick]

Mostly good info, except I run 10-11 BHN bullet all da time in 45 ACP and don't get a hint of leading. I've run a lotta 8-9 with no leading too, as measured on a Cabin Tree (not scientific measurement, I know).

Obturation doesn't have to occur if your bullet is ≥ groove diameter of the barrel at hand, after it makes the trip thru the throat(s), assuming decent lube and the barrel is in good condition and free of rough spots or constriction, and; the bullet isn't in the barrel long enough to flame cut.

What is described above is the elastic limitations/carachteristics of the alloy/bullet being exceeded by the pressure generated by the charge being fired. Heat doesn't have anything to do with it.

Otherwise, every lead bullet fired would be melted at the base.

ETA: For real.

[MCK45ACP]

I absolutly agree with you Slick. I just thought It explained obduration and the principles surrounding it. I don't cast my own buttets (yet), so I have to more or less accept what I get from the manufacturers. I have shopped around and found the bullets from company mentioned above to work well for me. (.45, .40 & 9mm) not to mention the price. It will be awhile before I get set up to cast, but I know I'll do fine with all the knowlege and advice from you folks. I have already picked up some great tips!!!!!! :2gunsfiring_v1:

I'm off to the range for falling plates. I'm RSO today. So I'll catch ya later!!!

[BigSlick]

I've shot some Missouri Bullets an they were fine.

As far as knowledge, I'm still kinda green, just stumble inta what work OK for me.

Deputy, cohutt (da lead ho king a da whole free world) ANeat or Yammer can tell ya all about it. Others too, for sure, but they who I realized my mistakes (all 28 million of em) from mostly.

They all lead hos, but dat cohutta boy take da cake... an da lead too. ANeat got so much he sell some now an again, Yammer drove 20hrs straight ta pick up a castin/sizin rig an Deputy been shootin 32 Mag before shootin 32 Mag was cool.

I kinda backed into it cause I'm cheap (an poor ta boot) a couple years ago

Hang around an ask questions when ya run inta somethin need fixin. Don't worry about askin a dumb question, I already asked all a those, so you pretty safe there ;)

Here's a pic of da first few I ever cast in my current life, they look kinda rough, but they all shot just fine.

http://www.glockpost.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1&pictureid=16

A few since, all of it gone now, but you get da idea, it a grow on ya for sure :

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/BigSlick10MM/Casting/452374-2.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/BigSlick10MM/Casting/40_175_SWC-1.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/BigSlick10MM/Casting/45ACP.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/BigSlick10MM/Casting/ingots.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/BigSlick10MM/Casting/410160jpg.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/BigSlick10MM/Casting/Cast.jpg

[blitzfike]

On the glock Kaboom issue..
"The brass lets go because pressure is raised by lead restricting the BBL." while this statement may in fact contribute to the issue, the main issue with glocks and reloads has to do with the way the feed ramp is positioned in the barrel. The 9mm is pretty good as is on all the barrels I have personally examined, but the .357 sig, .40 and .45s all have a deeper cut into the chamber. If you examine brass from these glocks, you will see a pronounced bulge on one side of the case. That is from the feed ramp cut extending to the case area in front of the web of the case. Virgin brass is soft enough to stretch without rupturing in that situation. Once the brass has been resized it is more brittle and prone to rupturing when not completely supported in the chamber. I have shot hundreds of lead bullets from a stock Glock 21 with no problems, but I kept the loads to the minimum that would reliably cycle the action. I currently have lone wolf barrels in .40 and .357 sig so I can practice with full power loads. Just some food for thought on the "Kaboom" issue.. Blitzfike

[Steviewonder1]

I have shot several thousand thru my G21 in the 1990's with never a problem. I did discover that a few hundred of them were at 210PF for IPSC in Alabama. Lowered the powder charge and got a Chrony to check them. I did have to clean out Grease crud from the seating and crimp dies in my Dillon SDB. All chambered with no issues. This was 200 GR SWC's which lots of folks have issues with, but went down range in my G21....