I got a law enforcement agency contract for my ammunition!!!

[freakshow10mm]

Goddammit where's that woohoo smiley!?!?!?!

Got off of work early tonight and came home to check my email. I got an email from a local law enforcement agency's top cop. They were impressed with my samples I sent them for T&E and would like to buy my ammunition for training purposes and use it exclusively. They've never had "ammunition perform so well, so consistently". Best 500rds I sent anywhere.

They agreed to a contract for 100,000 rounds per year for two years and start taking delivery May 1st!!!:cornut:

I go in on Monday to handle the paperwork. Pardon my French, but I'm so ****ing excited I almost wet myself. For real.:yesnod: Just to give you an idea of the significance is, that is several thousand dollars more than I make right now as a pizza jockey, all profit. :thumbsup:

[MakeMineaP99]

You need a 1050 yesterday.

Further, since you're in bed with the top cop, file for your 01 or 07 and pay your SOT 03 or 02, and then start getting demo letters from him for MGs.

Congrats.

[freakshow10mm]

Thanks. Baby steps, P99. Baby steps.

Seriously considering my 01. With an 01 I won't need an 06.

[KpaxFAQ]

awesome congratulations freak!

[MakeMineaP99]

Seriously considering my 01. With an 01 I won't need an 06.

Not quite, an 01 will allow you to deal in firearms, but you'll still need the 06 to manufacture ammo. An 07 will allow you to maufacture firearms and ammunition and deal in same.

[DssG19]

congrats buddy!! you gonna drop the pizza gig?

[yammerschooner]

damn cool freak

[freakshow10mm]

Not quite, an 01 will allow you to deal in firearms, but you'll still need the 06 to manufacture ammo. An 07 will allow you to maufacture firearms and ammunition and deal in same.
That might be the one I'm thinking of.

[AdamN]

Fantastic; 3 payment plan on 1050's

[AdamN]

Oh yea, Factory ammo sucks, know what that means now!!!!

[Oreo]

That's friggin awsome Freak! Congrats man! That is a HUGE step for your biz!

[ept000]

Freak! You da man!!! Can we tell people we knew you when you were just starting out? Congratulations!

[Anvil]

For real Freak, God has smiled on you! 200,000 rounds is one hell of alot! Have you looked seriously at what your costs of production will be? What will your profit be on that many rounds? How much lead time will you need to send them the first batch? How long before they require each shipment and can you produce at that level? How much lead will you need to do this? The logistics matter now.

I may be able to help you with ammunition trays. Memphis Police sells their ammo trays back for 1 penny apiece. I'm sure I could make them a marginally better offer for you and send you a holy **** load of them in .40 S&W.

[freakshow10mm]

congrats buddy!! you gonna drop the pizza gig?
Nope. I'm living off the pizza gig as it is so I'm keeping it and just living off of that. I can pay down my debt with the profits from the contract. If I get a total of 4 years of contract, all my credit card debt and student load debt will be gone in 3.5 years (assuming prices flatline; not going to happen).

[GLOCKENNBOOMER]

Congrats man. Big +1 on the you needed a Dillon 1050 yesterday.......Keep your eye on the ball.

[MakeMineaP99]

Hell, forget the 1050, go Camdex.

[freakshow10mm]

Have you looked seriously at what your costs of production will be?
In terms of materials, yes. In terms of time, about 20 hours a month or less, so 4-5 hours per week to fullfil this contract.

What will your profit be on that many rounds?
$13,000 per year

How much lead time will you need to send them the first batch?
First batch is due May 1st. Batches due the 1st of the month. They pay $1/mile for delivery, round trip.

How long before they require each shipment and can you produce at that level?
Shipments staggered at 1 month apart. It's a fairly small department by comparison to national levels. I can handle it. I think.:animlol:

How much lead will you need to do this?
This is jacketed bullets. Lead at this quantity would be over my head. If I had a machine, I might be able to make it work, but handcasting this contract plus customer orders would be a nightmare.

The logistics matter now.
Fo shizzle.

I may be able to help you with ammunition trays. Memphis Police sells their ammo trays back for 1 penny apiece. I'm sure I could make them a marginally better offer for you and send you a holy **** load of them in .40 S&W.
I'm game. They are running 40S&W SIGs.

[soundwave]

Holy crap! That is awesome!!

Big congrats freak! :cheers2:

[MakeMineaP99]

Freak--

There are always trays in the garage at the range. I'll start saving them for you if you want. Probably more expensive to ship than there worth, but if you're going to be down here soon, you can pick them up.

As much as I hate to say it, .40 SIGs suck. The milled slide just isn't fun.

[freakshow10mm]

As long as they fit 40S&W, I'll take them. Save up enough for a FRB. I'll pay postage.

[Anvil]

40 Sig 229 is what my dept. uses. There's always huge 55 gallon bags of plastic .40 trays.


I'd have to ship by freight, on a pallet and saran wrapped. It's a bunch. Shame you don't live near the south.

[MakeMineaP99]

With a freight account, skids are cheap to ship.

Freak, you hooked up with CCX, Yellow, Roadway, etc? Let me find out some details next week from S&R, we ship freight all the time.

[Anvil]

You know FS, if you just had enough ammo trays for a 2 month supply you could just have them toss the ammo trays back into a bag like MPD does and just recirculate the ammo trays so that you're just wasting the paper boxes.

[MakeMineaP99]

If you need paper boxes, we got plenty of those in the trash too...

[freakshow10mm]

With a freight account, skids are cheap to ship.

Freak, you hooked up with CCX, Yellow, Roadway, etc? Let me find out some details next week from S&R, we ship freight all the time.
Just UPS.

You know FS, if you just had enough ammo trays for a 2 month supply you could just have them toss the ammo trays back into a bag like MPD does and just recirculate the ammo trays so that you're just wasting the paper boxes.
Was thinking of using Rubbermaid tubs to cut down on cost.

[MakeMineaP99]

I'd ask the chief if he gives a damn about packaging; if not, deliver the ammo in damn coffee cans.

[Anvil]

Rubbermaid tubs? You were just gonna wheel in a tub of ammo?


from pizza delivery to ammo delivery.

[Anvil]

Oh yea, Factory ammo sucks, know what that means now!!!!


So freak, you're now "THE MAN" us handloaders rebel against. It's your souless corporate ammunition military-industrialist machine that we fight and struggle against. It's the Winchester / Remington / Sellier & Berlliot / Freakshow / Fiochii ... etc. that have taken our art and made it into production science.

You and your asian counterparts making ammo for slave wages that appeal to the common sportsman and LEO training agency that are fading us into obsolesence. You are like Darth Vader among us. The outcast we now fear and feign reverence.

Damn you!

[Warhorse]

So freak, you're now "THE MAN" us handloaders rebel against. It's your souless corporate ammunition military-industrialist machine that we fight and struggle against. It's the Winchester / Remington / Sellier & Berlliot / Freakshow / Fiochii ... etc. that have taken our art and made it into production science.

You and your asian counterparts making ammo for slave wages that appeal to the common sportsman and LEO training agency that are fading us into obsolesence. You are like Darth Vader among us. The outcast we now fear and feign reverence.

Damn you!
Is that just a fancy way of saying "Corporate Whore"?

Congats again Freak!

[jawjaboy]

Does this mean we gonna have to start calling you Mister Freakshow now?

Too cool man! :thumbsup:

[ede]

congrats you're on your way. hope it all works out for you.

[gwalchmai]

Congrats, Freak!

I'd ask the chief if bulk ammo in a thick plastic bag inside a cardboard box would be acceptable. I picked up a bunch of Speer 9mm +P Gold Dots packaged 500/box this way a few years back. For range use it would probably be more convenient for them than fooling with boxes and trays.

[cohutt]

:patriot:

[PCFlorida]

Congrats!

I hope this doesn't delay my order for a measly 1K of .45 cast I'm about to order :)

[Pitmaster]

Does this mean we gonna have to start calling you Mister Freakshow now?

Too cool man! :thumbsup:

I think its going to be "Warren Gates" Freakshow now.

Congratulations. This place got busy after I went to bed.

Off to IDPA

[Murphy's Law]

Congrat's Adam........very pleased about your good fortune. I always knew good things happen to those who wait. You're deserving individual....willing to put in the effort to better oneself. I truly applaud you my friend. Don't forget, I still think I was your first customer and you should frame a picture of me on the wall someplace.

:sifone:

[ustate]

Congrats Freak, thats good news.

[Jayhawker]

That is flippin' awesome for you and your business. All of your hard work is paying off. But once your done changin' your self, you got some more work ahead of you.

[slowride]

Congrats, Freak!

[P195]

Man Adam the news is awesome....Congrats...you deserve it..They know good stuff when they shoot it. Lets hope this is just the beginning of more contracts to come..
Hang in there Bro and kick ass.

[webyourbusiness]

Great deal Freak!! I am so glad that it's going well - just need a couple more (not sensible having only one basket and all the eggs in it!)

;)

[ISUSteve]

Thats awesome! Congrats. Just don't forget about little ol' us here at GP.

[Crazy4nitro]

You a Pimp!

'Nitro

[ISUSteve]

How did you package the first 500 rounds to them?

[Steve Koski]

Forget the Camdex, buy Winchester.

Nice work FS!

[Steel Talon]

Congrats Brothers!

Once your foot is in the door then other contracts will be flooding in. Chiefs /and the department buyers do talk amongst themselves.

FWIW..
An idea for your packaging are those heavy(meaning heavier than zip loc) poly bags.

Drop in 50 rounds fold top over twice and staple I believe that would be the most cost effective and probably the simplest. I've shot training / Qual ammo before that came packaged this way. They also stack/lay well in delivery cartons

So where ya gonna get 100K of .40 brass? :supergrin: Are you gonna cast your bullets or job them? TJ Convera would probably be a good resource for you if your going to buy your projectiles ETC..

Peace
Steel Talon:coolgleamA:

[freakshow10mm]

How did you package the first 500 rounds to them?
10 boxes looking similar to this one. I just loaded up my arms and brought them in.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/P4050005.jpg

[918v]

May I suggest an addition to your lead warning:

"Contains Lead. It will kill you dead, and give yo momma cancer."

BTW, congrats! I would not have the time to generate that many rounds in a year, unless I hired some illegals. And then they'd all get carpal tunnel.

[Bush Pilot]

Way to go Freak.

Did you discuss the type of packaging THEY require? You might be better off finding a source for ammo cans and deliver them in the cans. Stencil your name on the cans and make sure the chief drives home the point they belong to you, not the officers.

Are you doing a brass exchange? Offer the dept. a cent or 1.5 cents back on the fired brass, you'll never get all your brass back, it would save you from having to look to outside sources.

Spend a few bucks and get an attorney to write up the legal mumbo jumbo, TRUST ME, don't deal with any government agency without all the details spelled out in writing. Make sure you can cover the cost of materials until you get paid, many times vendors have to wait up to six months to actually see payment.

[craig110]

10 boxes looking similar to this one. I just loaded up my arms and brought them in.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/P4050005.jpg

Looks great, Freak, and congratulations on the PD training business!

[creekwalker]

Adam,
Fantastic news Adam, good luck to you, you've earned it. Simplest and cheapest packaging option I've seen is the stryrafoam trays and paper boxes like you pictured. As to your brass by all means have it entered in your contract that you'll rebuy all fired brass. This way you get most of what you shipped them back as well as their service brass.
I strongly recommend you pick up a Dillon 1050 as quickly as you can and perhaps later on consider additional equipment. If your money is to tight for now I can ship you my PB 1 to set up with your RC and also use until you get another, more sutible progressive press.

cw

[RustyFN]

Congrats Freak, sounds like a sweet deal.
Rusty

[copdills]

Congrats Freakshow thats GREAT

[jmacken37]

Way to go Freakshow! You will get more work if this goes well. There is not much money in the localities here in MI. Ditto on the recommendation to get your FFL/SOT and start branching out into MG's that can actually use that ammo!

Jake

[trickyasafox]

congrats!

[Steve Koski]

Pucker Factor Ammo

LOL! ! !

How very un PC of you. I love it.

[DssG19]

Freak you gonna be cranking out that many rounds on your 550? If so Dillon should give you a corporate sponsor for a 550 torture test.

[bfox]

Gettin laid , Business going Good and getting
a LE contract you must be doing something Right .:thumbsup:

Congratulations , Bill

[freakshow10mm]

Pucker Factor Ammo

LOL! ! !

How very un PC of you. I love it.
My range buddy though of that one. Said each time he fired my 10mm his asshole puckered. Said my ammo has pucker factor built into it.

Freak you gonna be cranking out that many rounds on your 550? If so Dillon should give you a corporate sponsor for a 550 torture test.
Yes, the 550. The way I figure it, should be about 4 hours a week just to load this contract. I have to take care of some things, but this summer I'm looking at getting a 1050 and a KISS bullet feeder. Mogollon said a guy sent in a 550 with reciepts totaling over one million rounds from a police department's orders.

If your money is to tight for now I can ship you my PB 1 to set up with your RC and also use until you get another, more sutible progressive press.
Thanks for the offer. I'll be using my Dillon 550 for starters, possibly upgrading to a Dillon 1050 in a few months.

Did you discuss the type of packaging THEY require? You might be better off finding a source for ammo cans and deliver them in the cans. Stencil your name on the cans and make sure the chief drives home the point they belong to you, not the officers.

The packaging will be addressed when I meet with them tomorrow. They might not care how it arrives or they might want everything in the boxes like the demo stuff. Cool thing about this is they are FET exempt.

Are you doing a brass exchange? Offer the dept. a cent or 1.5 cents back on the fired brass, you'll never get all your brass back, it would save you from having to look to outside sources.
I will be offering a brass exchange. I haven't figured out how to do it. I was thinking of just taking the brass cost out of the cost equation but adding a processing charge for inspection and polishing of the returned brass. If they returned brass, they'd be in for powder, primer, bullet then a modest processing fee for processing the brass, which would be much cheaper than buying new brass every batch (plus my markup).

Spend a few bucks and get an attorney to write up the legal mumbo jumbo, TRUST ME, don't deal with any government agency without all the details spelled out in writing. Make sure you can cover the cost of materials until you get paid, many times vendors have to wait up to six months to actually see payment.
Already on it. My college assists with council for students that own businesses. I'm going to require payment up front, per batch. They pay me, I load it, I drop it off.

[ten thumbs]

FanFREAKINGtastic Adam. I told you in our phone cnnversation that I was impressed with both your knowledge and ambition.I guess that Chief recognized it too.

I'm looking foward to watching your venture grow! :thumbsup: :cheers2:

[colorado4wheel]

Way to go. Great thinking and work.

[speedracer211]

I would like to know what your liability is in this if something went wrong for some reason (KB)? Also if you need help with anything my family is in the paper printing business and prints all sort of **** from magazines to guitar tab books to NFL and NBA jerseys if you need something send me a pm and I can see what they or someone could do for you as to the packaging.

[lcarreau]

wow, that os great FS. Congrats!

[freakshow10mm]

I would like to know what your liability is in this if something went wrong for some reason (KB)?
Same as any other ammunition manufacturer.

[colorado4wheel]

I would consider the 1050 again. You now have a great thing going and having a press that help insure "everything" is perfect will insure you keep this one and get many more. You don't want a squib, high primer etc.

[creophus]

Congratulations Freakshow. That's a real blessing to have a contract. In regards to packaging, try to make it as nice as you can. Every box with your name on it is a business card, so that anytime someone sees it they will form an impression of your company. Presentation makes a difference with some people.

You obviuosly have quality ammo and the boys in blue recognize it!

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Well, everybody better start stocking up on jacketed .40 bullets cuz I sense a lot of em are going to vanish. I think using jacketed bullets was very smart so you don't have to worry about lead supply, smelting and casting time and the liability that follows. As for the brass, I would run some numbers on using new brass each time so that you can cover yourself from liability of a kB with used brass, but then get back the brass from them and sell it all as once-fired through your public website. Congrats for sure!

[chewy]

DAMN! And them CC guys say hand loadin' don't pay! We all real happy for ya' man. What an opprotunity! Apologies for my late response, ain't been online too much this weekend (mostly shootin').

[cvfl]

I got home from work today and had a package waiting from the reloadin' fairy. My 550 quick change kit arrived from FS and was gonna post a thank you, and found this thread.
THIS IS ONE HELLUVA MONDAY.
Congrats Adam and am proud to say I was order number 57...

[myg30]

Congrads Freak, hope you dont forget us small guys here. Ya may not have any spare time to chit-chat wid us ?

[freakshow10mm]

Congrads Freak, hope you dont forget us small guys here.
I'll never forget where I started. Basement at the in law's loading 10mm on a Lee hand press with dippers.

[zdogk9]

When you gonna introduce the PFA Monkey Magnum to the masses? You put 'em all out of business, for sure.
Most likely there is a good chance you'll generate enough business to be able to tell the fat sow at the Pizza Parlor to go perform an unnatural act with a French alpine goat, pay off your CC ahead of schedule and still have more to live on than you do presently.
Congratulations!
Z

[freakshow10mm]

Hopefully. I'm going to stay at the pizza gig for as long as I can stand it. Things are getting better there now. The amount of profit in this contract is more than I make at the gig so that is a good thing. I'm going to continue to live off of the pizza gig like I have been and pay off debt and create a nest egg. If this keeps up I can be out of credit card debt and have my house paid off in three year's time, then work on the student loans.

In the coming weeks I'm sending samples out to a few other local departments and see if I get any bites. There's about 6 local departments here so that can keep me busy.

[thorn]

Seriously... congrats. You've obviously put a lot of work into starting your own business; excellent to see your efforts are paying off - literally. ;)

thorn

[freakshow10mm]

I'm beginning to realize how much behind the scenes work there is involved running a business. I can't wait until school is over for the semester so that can free up a lot of time that I can work on orders. There's this week and then two weeks before the semester ends, the last week being finals.

This has strained the home life a bit but now my wife is seeing the money come in for some ROI and is a bit more open to the idea. She thought this was going to be a "phase" I'm going through. Now she thinks otherwise.:thumbsup:

[ISUSteve]

Does your wife help you at all?

[freakshow10mm]

No.

[ISUSteve]

Maybe you could her going on casting.

[Phunahm]

Way To Go FS :thumbsup:

[freakshow10mm]

Maybe you could her going on casting.
Tried that.

[ISUSteve]

Have you tried paying her? Tell her she can go out and buy something special

[freakshow10mm]

She says I'm on my own. Hell, even sizing some bullets while I'm at my other job would be nice. No dice.

[Pitmaster]

You can keep buying more guns with the profit. The question is, once she sees this begin to take off will she help or just want part of the profits. Hopefully she will see the need to be more supportive. Maybe she doesn't see the financial value yet. You do, that's for sure.

[freakshow10mm]

The only time paycheck comes before work is in the dictionary. If she wants money from this venture, she has to put her time in to it like I do.

[BigSlick]

:cool:

Couldn't have happened to someone that deserves it more :thumbsup:

You loadin XTP's for da contract ?

If so, you better order a load before da price goes up.

[freakshow10mm]

No XTPs, them too expensive for volume shooting. I'm using the cheapest I can find. The contract isn't for a specific load, I have freedom over the bullet used and the price per unit is understood to be penciled in due to the volatile market for components. The price is quoted per batch.

[Bush Pilot]

Can you use plated or does the contract call for FMJ?

[freakshow10mm]

I can use either. I'm staying away from lead as at this volume I'd rather not deal with getting bullet sized to specific weapons nor dozens of officers coming to me with leading issues. I'm sticking with plated or jacketed.

[Charly]

Bravo mon ami (bravo my friend) :cheers2:

It is good to get some good news from time to time !

Wish you all the best with this new contract.

(and you might want to consider the 1050 option ...)

[freakshow10mm]

The 1050 with KISS bullet feeder is in the near future.

[Phunahm]

What you taking in school FS?.....

[freakshow10mm]

Criminal Justice.

[Phunahm]

Kewl :patriot: Good for you!!!

[ustate]

Of course we'll need pics when you get the 1050 and get it set up.

[yammerschooner]

Freak is definitely down with the sickness.

[tyger006]

Congrats Freak!
I am excited for you and your bussiness... I guess it is because I have thought about doing something similar(own bussiness), and yet haven't had the stones to get it going.

Hey Everybody, I made it over here from the other side... Took me a little while to figure it out, so good job on a new site! This place will grow fast I think!

Tyger

[freakshow10mm]

LE practice ammo is a decent gig. Repeat customers, steady supply, and word spreads like wild fire.

I got this contract negotiated and inked. Finally. It took all week. Two more agencies are getting samples, another one is sniffing around. Exchanging emails with a few officers from other departments in CA, NV, and IL.

Things keep up this way I might drop the bullet casting and just do ammunition.

[Phunahm]

:( That would kinda suk But I hear ya you wouldn't have enough time on your hands......:driving:

[anyplainjoe]

Wow!!!

[VN350X10]

Congratulations Adam !

A Super 1050 w/a KISS will make life easier.
Be really great if you latch onto other agencies that also use .40 S&W, and similar specs.

uncle albert

[freakshow10mm]

For starters I advertise just one load per caliber. I can work with the agency to develop something that suits their needs. I try to balance cost with performance. Ideally, the practice load should be close to the duty load, maybe 50fps less for fatigue control.

I asked around at the village PDs and the counties and the state police. All use 40s, mostly SIGs. Laurium is "it just has to be 40S&W", which is nice for officers to choose a gun that fits them and they are confident in, but nightmare for logistics. If your partner gets shot and you need more ammo, you can't use his SIG229 mags in your G23.

[speedracer211]

I have a friend who is the k9 cop for an area in PA. If you want I will talk to him next week when I am in the area and see what he says.

[freakshow10mm]

Individual officers can purchase at the LE Sales rate if done through their department. I ship to the department, they hand it off to the officer. Cheaper price and no excise tax. The department would be ordering it, tax exempt, but they can give it to whoever they want after that. The only way to dodge the FET with law enforcement is for the manufacturer (me) to ship directly to the agency with no middleman (besides UPS, FedEx, etc).