Caliber Corner... .458 Lott versus 45-70 Govt

[Anvil]

I'm eyeballing a Ruger 1 and was wondering if there's enough real world difference between a .458 Lott and 45-70 to make a difference.

OF COURSE I'd be hand loading for either.

That .458 looks sexy and I'd like a BIG BOOM STICK that I might put a JP Enterprizes RECOIL ELIMINATOR on. Something that would break my shoulder and reach out there with 500 grains of authority but a .45-70 might do that too.



What's a good ridiculous caliber that can be reloaded yet hurt like a bitch to shoot? (no 500 tyranasaur videos please)

[MONTEGOD7SS]

I think a .45-70 in a Ruger #1 could get you crying for mommy if you load it to 50,000PSI with some big ole 500gr+ slugs. Kind of odd that you want a shoulder breaker specifically for that reason but then want a recoil reducer, what gives?

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

Go for the Ruger #1 in 45-70. I had one but now have a marlin 45-70. the 45-70 just has a certain appeal to it. what ever you do, you should load up some 565 grn shoulder thumpers. they'll get you on the asprin for reals.

[Anvil]

I think a .45-70 in a Ruger #1 could get you crying for mommy if you load it to 50,000PSI with some big ole 500gr+ slugs. Kind of odd that you want a shoulder breaker specifically for that reason but then want a recoil reducer, what gives?

I just want that much power out the business end.

[ISUSteve]

I was looking at the Ruger 1 in 45-70 also, but after seeing JJB's (I think) Handi-rifle, I think I'm going to go with that.

[Mogollon]

45-70 components are cheaper and easier to get, and a Ruger #1 is light enough that you can inflame your burcitis easily with one. If you were actually going to hunt dangerous game like buffalo, rhino or elephant I might prefer the 458 Lott, but I have fired a friends and they truly hurt to shoot. Of course, you can load them light and treat them like a 45-110 and use lead bullets, but brass is spendy.
I have had two friends go hunting cape buffalo in Africa with 45-70, and bulls died just as well as with a faster round. Use a monolithic solid, and if the bullet exits, the higher velocity doesn't mean much.

[craig110]

I was looking at the Ruger 1 in 45-70 also, but after seeing JJB's (I think) Handi-rifle, I think I'm going to go with that.

The Handi-rifle is pretty nice, but I'm partial to the Thompson Center Arms models instead. I like not having to send the gun in to get a new barrel fitted and, from what I've read, they are much more accurate with those long barrels on the Encore Pro Hunter series.

[freakshow10mm]

Ruger #1 in 45/70. Get a SVL pad, not the JP pad. The SVL is da bomb.

[Anvil]

Ruger #1 in 45/70. Get a SVL pad, not the JP pad. The SVL is da bomb.



Huh?

The JP reference was for a recoil eliminator muzzle break.

Put me on to what you're talking about.

[WalterGA]

The JP Recoil Eliminator is probably the most effective brake there is. I'm too much of a baby to shoot the thunderboomers. I really enjoy shooting rifles, but just am not masochistic.

If you're going to be using the JP device, you'll need some really good ear protection, and what few friends you have won't be your friends any longer, after a trip to the range with you and the JP-equipped blastercannon!:)

Several of my friends use .45-70s for deer rifles in dense brush. I can't think of another reason to have such a rifle. They're certainly no fun to shoot off the bench!

[Anvil]

Several of my friends use .45-70s for deer rifles in dense brush. I can't think of another reason to have such a rifle.

So true. The modern 45-70 will kill anything on earth. It makes the 500 nitro express and other shoulder artillary obsolete.

[freakshow10mm]

Huh?

The JP reference was for a recoil eliminator muzzle break.

Put me on to what you're talking about.
Oh, I thought it was a recoil pad they made. My mistake.

The Sims Vibration Labratory recoil pad is great. My guide gun wears one. I like to shoot 43,500psi loads in my gun and the SVL keeps the recoil manageable. You see me in my avatar. I ain't a big guy at all.

In my opinion, the only gun that should have a muzzle brake on it is a 50BMG or its offspring.

ETA: With the No. 1, you can use spitzer shaped bullets too. I've been meaning to get one for the Postell type bullets.

[Anvil]

FS, you have any idea what the maximum range is with a heavy 45-70 spitzer?


Ruger makes a fantastic 45-70 but Winchester has one out now too, and the browning hiwall looks nice... I'm gonna check out that SVL

[freakshow10mm]

Very common bullet for the 1000yd matches is a 500-535gr Postell bullet. Lyman, Lee, and RCBS make molds. I'm getting a Lee 500gr Postell soon.

Lee
http://www.grafs.com/pictures/128/lee90577.jpg

Lyman
http://www.grafs.com/pictures/128/ly2640132.jpg

RCBS
http://www.grafs.com/pictures/128/rcbs82085.jpg

[Tailgunner]

137lb FEMALE vs a 458Lott, with full boat loads (500gr Jacketed bullets at 2260fps).
Before:
http://thehibbitts.net/troy/hunting/images/Marla.458.Lott1.jpg
After (and she went back for seconds an thirds with it)
http://thehibbitts.net/troy/hunting/images/Marla.458.Lott.jpg

As far as using a 45-70 on DG goes, yes they will do the job IF everything goes as planned, it's when things go wrong that your going to find yourself in trouble. Same as shooting deer with a 22LR, it's killed millions of deer, but there is no margin for error either.

As to the 1000yd shooting, yes, they can lob them in quite effectivly, but what are you going to do if the target distance is unknown (considering that the trajectory is akin to a howitzers).

[MakeMineaP99]

Bob,

Good to see you made it here. See you on Saturday.

[Tailgunner]

It took awhile, what with moving/changing IP's, lack of sleep, long days at work etc.
Looking forward to Sat.

[WalterGA]

So true. The modern 45-70 will kill anything on earth. It makes the 500 nitro express and other shoulder artillary obsolete.

Some of the deer-hunting down heah on Tobaccy Road is in REALLY THICK, swampy woods. Most shots in that environment is @ 20-40 yds, with a 40-yds shot being the exception. Those huge bullets do make a difference, when tearing through small limbs, etc.

[Brass Nazi]

I own a No.l in 45/70 and a CZ550 in .458 Lott

Here is my take:

There is a big difference in weight in a no.1 chambered for 45/70 and one chambered for .458 Lott. The 45/70 is quite lighter.

You can load the 45/70 pretty hot in the number one but I only shoot loads in it that are safe in my marlin as well. To be honest I have not shot my no.1 that much. The marlin gets the most use.

The .458 Lott is interesting. My 550 weighs 10.5 lbs.

Recoil with full loads is brutal and I an not afraid to admit it. 5 Shots and I am done. You can download the Lott but the large case volume makes it troublesome. You can use all of the low velocity recipes for the .458 WIN MAG in the .458 Lott but you may want to use a small piece of dacron to keep the powder near the primer. AA5744 is a great powder for this purpose.

If I could do it all over again I would buy a .458 WIN instead of the Lott. Brass is more abundant and the smaller cartridge is easier to download (for that matter the 45/70 would be an even better choice)

Shooting downloaded loads in the Lott is fun because the recoil can be very low in the heavy gun. But once again for this purpose the WIN MAG is better.

[CZ93X62]

Top-end loads in a Ruger #1 x 45-70 aren't a lot of fun. My example weighs about 7-1/4#, and while a delight to carry afield......it's not a bench gun for intrepid load work. I've fired a Win 70 in 458 Win Mag, and I would rate that bolt rifle as more tractable than the Ruger once heavy loads are on the agenda.

The trajectories of 45 caliber rifles aren't very flat. Look at the 375 H&H or 338 Win Mag for heavy calibers with reach and reasonable recoil. The 338 is immensely popular for very good reasons.

[freakshow10mm]

Brass Nazi, I got a nice 458 Lott article with some good plinker loads. I'll mail you a copy. Good read.

[Brass Nazi]

Brass Nazi, I got a nice 458 Lott article with some good plinker loads. I'll mail you a copy. Good read.

I look forward to it.


Thanks!

[Brass Nazi]

The trajectories of 45 caliber rifles aren't very flat. Look at the 375 H&H or 338 Win Mag for heavy calibers with reach and reasonable recoil. The 338 is immensely popular for very good reasons.

If you want a flat shooting .45 get a .460 Weatherby. 350gr bullets at 2800+fps will get your attention.

The .338 is a great cartridge but when it comes to one single cartridge that can do it all the .375 H&H is all that and a bag of chips. Several bullets (intended for .375 winchester?) can be loaded to a lower velocity to obtain good performance on whitetails without being too destructive and the 270gr bullets can be used to take anything that walks.

I hear that there are even a few sick individuals out there that prefer to shoot the old cartridge in handguns.

[918v]

I have owned a 45-70 Browning HiWall with a 28" barrel. The most powerful load I was able to manke was a 350gr Speer FP doing about 2550 FPS with a compredded charge of Reloader-7. The 45-70 doesnot have the powder capacity to compete with either the 458 Mag or the Lott, especially from a 22" barrel and a short throat that the No.1 has.

The No.1 in 45-70 is a lightweight short-range piece. I would not want to fire my HiWall load in it. It would be quite painful, kinda like a 2.25oz 3.5" 12ga turkey load from a 7lb OU.

[Rugby]

Oh, I thought it was a recoil pad they made. My mistake.

The Sims Vibration Labratory recoil pad is great. My guide gun wears one. I like to shoot 43,500psi loads in my gun and the SVL keeps the recoil manageable. You see me in my avatar. I ain't a big guy at all.

In my opinion, the only gun that should have a muzzle brake on it is a 50BMG or its offspring.

ETA: With the No. 1, you can use spitzer shaped bullets too. I've been meaning to get one for the Postell type bullets.

You see me in my avatar. I ain't a big guy at all.

That guy holding you isn't either!

[craig110]

That guy holding you isn't either!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[creophus]

This is a REALLY old thread....
Tim, what did you end up getting?

I got a bit of experience lately with the 458 Win Mag in a 458 Lott action and Wow! Not too bad though and I doubt there's any real comparison between the Lott and the 45-70, except for the caliber.