Post Office carry ?

[BigSlick]

You guys carry in da post office ?

Seems ta be a gray area, an largely depends upon the local jurisdiction interpretation.

How about da bank ?

[MakeMineaP99]

I have yet to see the USC make it a definitive crime. IN law is silent on the issue. At my local post office, notice pursuant to 18 USC §930(h) is NOT given either.

IN has no law prohibiting carrying in a bank.

18 USC §930

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111 (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001111----000-.html), 1112 (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001112----000-.html), 1113 (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001113----000-.html), and 1117 (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001117----000-.html).

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—

(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.


(e)

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).

(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.

(g) As used in this section:

(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

(2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.

(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.


(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

[freakshow10mm]

Every day they are open.

CFR is void, and says so itself. Sub d of the USC says it's legal for "lawful purposes".

Almost every single postal employee in my local PO knows I carry, half of them took the class with me, and they never say a word.

My credit union is cool. I carry all the time and they even let me open carry.

[TwoShot]

Ya, most of the time i forget to disarm..

[MakeMineaP99]

Every day they are open.

CFR is void, and says so itself. Sub d of the USC says it's legal for "lawful purposes".

Almost every single postal employee in my local PO knows I carry, half of them took the class with me, and they never say a word.

My credit union is cool. I carry all the time and they even let me open carry.

Can you quote the CFR? I don't recall that one.

[freakshow10mm]

39 CFR 232(2) Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and regulations in this section while on property under the charge and control of the Postal Service is subject to fine of not more than $50 or imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both. Nothing contained in these rules and regulations shall be construed to abrogate any other Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations applicable to any area in which the property is situated.

http://vlex.com/vid/19777182
Scroll all the way down, then 4 paras up is the above quoted text.

The USC trumps the CFR and the CFR recognizes this fact. The CFR cannot trump the USC and explicitly addresses this. The CFR must comply with the USC, in the case that it conflicts with the USC, the USC is the supreme law. In the case of post office carry, 18 USC 930 (d)(3) trumps 39 CFR 232 (p)(2) without any question. The defense rests.:thumbsup:

[918v]

A bank is not a federal facility. It is a private building with FDIC insured money.

[MakeMineaP99]

I didn't disagree with you, I was worried I couldn't pull up the cite, I'm getting old.

The easy way to remember this, the CFR is the code of federal regulations, all regulations come from the USC. Therefore, the USC must exist for the CFR to exist. Further, the USC trumps the CFR everytime, all the time.

[MakeMineaP99]

A bank is not a federal facility. It is a private building with FDIC insured money.
With the exception of Federal Reserve banks, which us common folks have no business in anyway, except for you, since you be a big shot.

[918v]

The State pays well. Thank You for contributing to my wallet... umm, my gun fund.

[freakshow10mm]

The Federal Reserve Bank is a hot button/gray area. The Federal Reserve Bank is a privately owned bank. It is also overseen by a board of government officials. The employees that work there are not federal employees. The guards there are not federal employees. I have a headache.

918v, I was addressing the post office issue. Banks are private property, just like you said, and the money is FDIC insured. Banks are cool in MI and there is no prohibition against post offices, it just says "or otherwise prohibited by federal law".

[918v]

I carry in the PO. I tell 'em, "Lookit... You're a PO employee. I'm a PO employee. It's all good."

[freakshow10mm]

I flash my CCW badge and they back down. I even get to go to the front of the line.

[918v]

I throw my packages over the back fence with the addresses reversed. They mail them back to the wrong address.

[MakeMineaP99]

Don't the dogs eat them?

[918v]

They don't have no dogs. The be so lazy you could put on a PO shirt, walk in there, and walk out with $100,000 worth of stamps.

[GLOCKENNBOOMER]

I flash my CCW badge and they back down. I even get to go to the front of the line.
:rofl::rofl::animlol:

[TwoShot]

I just flash my gun and fire off a couple of rounds the whole damn building clears and than I help my self.:rofl::subgun:

[Steve Koski]

One word: Shambok

[TwoShot]

Is that good or bad ???????????

[TwoShot]

Steve:
Do they have post offices in montnau,or Pony express:skep:

[BigSlick]

So, do most of you carry in da PO or does it give ya da wilies

For DFW ta be so rich in Texas history an da way a da gun is generally accepted, they is such a lunatic fringe of sheeple minded liberals in local govt dat anyone in da news for carryin is put under a mcroscope of media scrutiny.

Language on da carry law is vague in da area of da post office.

Keep in mind, da PO is a for-profit organization, not your typical govt agency at face value

[MakeMineaP99]

Keep in mind, da PO is a for-profit organization, not your typical govt agency at face value

If you look at the Postal Reorganization Act, signed by Nixon, you'll see the post office is an independant agency, treated like a corporation, excercises full rights of a corporation, can sue and be sued, and is no longer a department of the United States. The post office does not receive federal tax dollars, however the post office is given a complete monpoly over mail delivery in the United States.

[UtahIrishman]

The Post Office I go to has a sign stating it's a Federal Facility and no guns allowed. Nothing to stop you but I'm a good law abidin' citizen and thus leave my pistol in the car.

Now my bank next door is also posted, but not for guns. You have to remove your sunglasses and hoody when you enter. I've carried in there many times.

[MakeMineaP99]

Interesting, my post office has no such sign.

I refuse to go to a bank that treats me like a criminal. I always wear I hat, the bank is no exception. The day the bank makes me take off my hat, is the last day I bank with them.

I will stand up on the managers desk, tell him what I think of his policy in no uncertain terms, and demand my accounts closed and my cash, now.

[Pitmaster]

So, do most of you carry in da PO or does it give ya da wilies

I always carry when doing my postal shopping online and putting the outgoing mail in my mailbox.

I don't get the "willies" but I am cautious about whether I'm printing or not.

[freakshow10mm]

So, do most of you carry in da PO or does it give ya da wilies

I walk the talk.:thumbsup:

Mailed my AR15 out today (cry). Carried my G30 on the hip. Mason on the other.

The Post Office I go to has a sign stating it's a Federal Facility and no guns allowed.
Read that poster again. Note the "Except as provided in subsection (d)..." part. That's this that they kindly neglect to omit:

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—

(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

[MakeMineaP99]

I walk the talk.:thumbsup:

Mailed my AR15 out today (cry). Carried my G30 on the hip. Mason on the other.

You're getting a select fire AR soon, don't cry. G30 on one hip, Mason on the other, all while carrying an AR, that had to be a sight to see.

[freakshow10mm]

I know but I have to start from scratch. Hindsight, I should have just sold the BCG, FCG, and stripped lower; then built it up with an AA/FSM lower and M16 doo dads. It is what it is.

[sjstill]

Never thought twice about carrying concealed into the PO or bank before I became a cop.

Open carry now, and the gal never says a thing. Must be my good manners. Or my badge :biggrinjester:


When I graduated the academy, my wife took me out to dinner afterwards. We needed to stop by the bank for some $$. The girls behind the counter went ga-ga over my uniform and asked what the deal was. Told 'em I was a male stripper now, and this was my costume :rofl: None of them believed me....:cryin:

[cvfl]

I carry in the PO - 18 USC 930 is green light from Fed standpoint, and nuthin' in Texas CHL regs says no-fly-zone that I have ever seen. Unless somebody has taken it upon themselves to post a 30-06 sign...

ETA: and the bank - unless posted with 30-06. Then it's the drive thru. But not my bank - I'd switch if my B of A locations suddenly posted signs.

[Boge]

This has been hashed over ad nauseum on countless message boards and the general consenus is this: we need a test case at the Federal level. I volunteer Big Slick to be the "guinea pig" so to speak. We can start a fund here to keep him in candy & smokes in Leavenworth until it comes to trial. How 'bout it, Big Slick? Man up!! ;)

[gokyo]

My PO has a what looks lıke a Glock wıth a slash through ıt. I ınterperted that to mean that I can not carry a glock ınto the PO. So I guess a Kahr or a Walther or whatever else ıs OK.I do not know what they have agaınst glock. But everyone has a rıght to theır own opıonıon.

[BigSlick]

I gotta stay here an work da maintenance on GP.

So, someone else gonna hafta volunteer.

But, in theory, da post office oughta not care one way or another. Postmans used enough hardware at work over da years ta sink a battleship.

I guess they don't like folks wit better hardware comin in. No idea why else it a be a problem.

Unless they afraid them draggin arse for hours on end at da window, only one clerk workin wit 13 counter slots, rest of em standin around shootin da breeze look at ya like ya just ate thay baby if ya ask could one of em maybe get da lead out an help someone seein as how da line is 40ft long an they close in 15 minutes...

Prolly jus don't wanna hafta deal wit da union when negotiations come up. Postal workers a want a hardware upgrade to at least as good as what people carry... could cost millions...

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Just noticed at mine today that they have a perfect picture of a j-frame circled with a line through it. Guess I'll only be able to carry my P220 there, darn.

[Boge]

Seriously, 99.99% of the people working at the P.O. don't even know that a non FFL can ship a long arm through them. I had a HUGE scene with some loud mouthed broad years ago in the P.O. about this until finally a male old timer basically told her to STFU & he helped me. He said he'd explain protocol to her later. I think the P.O. deliberately hires women who are at least 100 lbs. overweight & confirmed "manhaters" to deal with the public.

[sparky241]

no i dont carry in the po,with the sheeple that i have in this liberal part of indiana it would be viewed like had 2 purple heads.I do carry into the bank all the time.

[sjstill]

Bloomington?


no i dont carry in the po,with the sheeple that i have in this liberal part of indiana it would be viewed like had 2 purple heads.I do carry into the bank all the time.

[MakeMineaP99]

Lake county.

[TwoShot]

I carry in the bank and the PO.
They dont know so nobody cares:)

[MakeMineaP99]

Just for the record, IN does NOT have a state prohibition on carry in either.

[sjstill]

God Bless Indiana!

Just for the record, IN does NOT have a state prohibition on carry in either.

[MakeMineaP99]

:hearye:

God blessed Indiana with his right hand.

[Boge]

:hearye:

God blessed Indiana with his right hand.


And Gary? :yikes:

[MakeMineaP99]

That's part of IL, along with all of Lake County.

[MJC]

I have no idea what is truely legal as to post office carry, but I have noticed that there are no longer any posters with the crossed out gun symbol in my post office lobby. I know they used to be there.

Also my post mistress has made a statment something to the effect of "if I can't see it, it's not my business".

[JLarsson]

I have no idea what is truely legal as to post office carry, but I have noticed that there are no longer any posters with the crossed out gun symbol in my post office lobby. I know they used to be there.

Also my post mistress has made a statment something to the effect of "if I can't see it, it's not my business".

We got it good up here in God's country, don't we. :yesnod:

[mdg132]

Well I never thought about it till now I carry in the PO I do not know if they knew I am armed or not but untill now never thought about it. I also carry in my bank/credit union of course they all know me and again I do not know if they are aware I have a gun. I had one teller ask about my pocket knife once but just wanted to know where i got it. Lone Wolf is the maker

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Way I figure it, if it is actually concealed how can they have a problem with something they don't know about? If some crazy guys busts in and you deflate him they'll have you on their shoulders parading you around for saving the day.