Why 40 vs 45 vs 9mm caliber war is stupid

[gokyo]

You know I always laughed when I saw the thread about which is the best caliber.

9mm is faster and has great penitration

45 is like freight train and leaves a bigger wound channel.

40 is best because it mergers the benifits of both

When you look at the muzzle energy they all look pretty much the same.

I used to feel very comfortable with my 9mm. I knew it would do the job. And it was cheap to load and shoot.

But then it all changed. I bought a g20 I started reloading 10mm. Wow. It makes the 40, 45, 9mm. stupid becasue they are all wrong.

The best Auto load cartridge is the 10mm.

Even better LWD set me up with barrels for my g20 in
9mm
357 sig
40S&W
10mm

and I will soon have a barrel for 9x25 dillon.

Not only is 10mm the best caliber the G20 is the ultimate gun. It can just about shoot anything.

[killarbb]

i tell you what.......i dont personally care to be on the recieving end of any 'o dem

[coltc]

I think my G30 shootin 45 super is the best. My glock nines are good too, all other calibers suck (until I get a gun that shoots them).

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Get a .460 Rowland conversion for a 1911 and then you can see what a .45 is capable of in an auto. I don't know if you need 1000ft-lb for self defense, but it can't hurt!

[Steve Koski]

Oh don't get me started...

[GLOCKENNBOOMER]

i tell you what.......i dont personally care to be on the recieving end of any 'o dem
Right there with you buddy, I don't wanna get hit with any of them.

[brahmabull8413]

I'd like to get a 1911 in 10mm.

[ept000]

Somebody compared this new site to the Boston Tea Party. I guess this thread is the first tax by the new goverment.

[soundwave]

Somebody compared this new site to the Boston Tea Party. I guess this thread is the first tax by the new goverment.

hahaha well put.

Just use Xtreme Shok ammo and you'll be alright with whatever :yikes:

[MakeMineaP99]

Handguns are pathetic. Get yourself a .300 Tomahawk.

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Nothing a ma deuce can't take care of.

[layusn1]

Hell...my 100th post may as well actually have something to do with something firearm related....

Looking at this...I don't really see a glaring obvious this one is better than that one answer but of course this is just one scenario. Either way, I think the best caliber is the one that you can control and obtain the shot placement you are looking for. Here is the ballistics gelatin pic I posted on the other forum...
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l124/layusn1/Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg

[MONTEGOD7SS]

That pic always struck me as being based off of pretty weak versions of each cartride. I am a .45 guy and figure it will penetrate enough and do enough damage, regardless of what the actual depth is.

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

I am a .45 guy and figure it will penetrate enough and do enough damage, regardless of what the actual depth is.


its nothing compared to the 44 mag and the all mighty 454 Casull.:spam:

[Crazy4nitro]

A Compound Bow and Arrow would Rule them All......
Or CrossBow.

'Nitro

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Good thing it's not a .460 or .500 cuz then I'd be scared.

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

Good thing it's not a .460 or .500 cuz then I'd be scared.


who would pack one of them for a CCW................. please your living in dream land theyd blow right threw the victim. what fun is that? i want to see someone suffering

[MONTEGOD7SS]

You got a .40 for that, right? :D

[layusn1]

Hows about a nice 7.62x25? Looking at S&B load data you have to go with magnum calibers to beat the force that round hits with.

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

You got a .40 for that, right? :D

and i carry it how often?????

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

Hows about a nice 7.62x25? Looking at S&B load data you have to go with magnum calibers to beat the force that round hits with.

I have read that that little bugger can go threw something like 2 phone books or some crap like that. I want one and have talked about haveing one for several years. hmmmmmm now i have to go look up dies,brass and such. i think i can get one of them at the gun shop. Itll be for the kid...hmmm that would mean he has gotten 2 guns in 9 days


:spam:

[layusn1]

I like my CZ52...then again, I like just about anything CZ. It isn't really that bulky either so you could carry it. My trigger is a bit on the stiff side but I bet someone could hook that up if I wanted to put a little $ into it. Reloading for it is the way to go but brass ain't the easiest to come by, kinda like my PA63...dang Mak brass isn't just layin around the range either.

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

I like my CZ52... Reloading for it is the way to go but brass ain't the easiest to come by,...dang Mak brass isn't just layin around the range either.


I hear you there. thats the only thing that has kept me from getting one.
:spam:

[MONTEGOD7SS]

I always wanted a CZ-52, but not for the armor piercing ninja stuff, just because I like the guns. The round is light and fast but if that is what I wanted I would get a 17HMR or something similar. They can't have much recoil because of that little bullet and the guns weighing about 5lb.

Your kid will have half your guns due to the divorce if you don't stop buying them for "him". Never underestimate how irrational a woman can be when her hormones are crashing like a 747 with all engines out.

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

Your kid will have half your guns due to the divorce if you don't stop buying them for "him". Never underestimate how irrational a woman can be when her hormones are crashing like a 747 with all engines out.

Roger that, thats why im sending her off to get a message...... that'll keep her calm.

:spam:

[layusn1]

I have a NEF 17HMR...fun as hell. I bought the CZ52 for the gun, not the round. I love C&Rs. There is plenty of surplus 7.62x25 out there and now that I have a K31 I am very seriously considering getting into the Berdan game...

If you can shoot where it is easy to recover the brass then buy one and get some S&B. I shoot at an outdoor range and she flings her brass like nobody's business...makes it hard to recover sometimes.

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

I have an H&R single shot 17 hmr also. screaming litttle round. cool little gun. wish i shot it more

[layusn1]

I would LOVE to shoot it more...if they could just get the cost of that round down to 22lr I would be a shooting mad man...if I could pry it out of my wifes hands...she at up 100rds last trip...she was just trying it for the first time.

[Sky Pilot]

Your kid will have half your guns due to the divorce if you don't stop buying them for "him". Never underestimate how irrational a woman can be when her hormones are crashing like a 747 with all engines out.

Sadly, amigos pistoleros, this is very and unfortunately true.
I won't soapbox on the subject, let's just say I am a scarred veteran of such a conflict, and I and my assets came out in second place!
A very distant second!

[WalterGA]

Gokyo, you SURE you got a 9mm barrel for that G20? :) What kind of mags are you using?

When I started posting on forums like this, I did a lot of disparaging, in my usual friendly manner, 9mm. Then, zounds, I picked up a nice 2nd gen. G17 at a really good price, then I was hooked. I carried a G30 daily for several years, until I found a good deal on a G26, which is my daily carry piece these days. G30 stays in the safe just about all the time now.

[gokyo]

Yeah the owner of LWD did a special run. I think he made like a dozen or so barrels.

I use a 12 lb spring and 124 grain at about 1100.

I use the standard 10mm magazine.

It works fine. I would not use the setup in a SD role just because it is pretty far from the the stock set up.

But it is pretty cool. 1 gun that can shoot 1/2 dozen calibers. it is like that revolver that you could shoot just about anything out of.

I now go to the range with 1 gun and a couple of barrels and have a good old time trying out various loads and for the most part just having fun.

The down side on th 9mm in the 10mm magazine is that there is still one round left inthe mag when the slide engages the slide stop.

[ISUSteve]

Hell...my 100th post may as well actually have something to do with something firearm related....

Looking at this...I don't really see a glaring obvious this one is better than that one answer but of course this is just one scenario. Either way, I think the best caliber is the one that you can control and obtain the shot placement you are looking for. Here is the ballistics gelatin pic I posted on the other forum...
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l124/layusn1/Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg

Have you guys noticed that the 40 165grain has a huge permenent cavity? Maybe its just me or the lighting.

[gokyo]

Have you guys noticed that the 40 165grain has a huge permenent cavity? Maybe its just me or the lighting.

I would really like to see that picture with a 10mm 165 grain @ 1300 fps or faster

I would also be real interested in seeing that picture with 9x25 dillon 115 grain at 1600 fps.

[MullahElRon]

This was settled in CC a long time ago:


http://i28.tinypic.com/2d1obw1.jpg

[gokyo]

Uh yeah. Not as scientific as normally would like but it does get the meaning across.

[layusn1]

That 40 wound does look much better than the rest. I agree...there are several calibers I would like to see added to that test (357 mag, 10mm, 400 Cor Bon, 7.62x25, 9mm Mak, 38 Special, 32 Crack Killa, etc.., not to mention we don't know a few things...were they all shot out of the same length barrel at the same distance? Did they all have as similar a PF as possible? Was that all the same batch of ballistic gellatin. The best way to do this would be to tell MythBusters that there is a myth that 9mm leaves a bigger wound channel than every other caliber out there and let them spend their time and money testing it...lol. They love playing with guns. I do hate the fact that they love destroying guns, good vintage guns, and vintage scopes....grrr. Anyway...I am sure there are a lot of factors that need to be considered to make that a really true/valuable test.

[Rangerat]

Mine is bigger and better posts are just plain dumb. I don't give a damn what you shoot.

[WalterGA]

Yeah the owner of LWD did a special run. I think he made like a dozen or so barrels.

I use a 12 lb spring and 124 grain at about 1100.

I use the standard 10mm magazine.

It works fine. I would not use the setup in a SD role just because it is pretty far from the the stock set up.

But it is pretty cool. 1 gun that can shoot 1/2 dozen calibers. it is like that revolver that you could shoot just about anything out of.

I now go to the range with 1 gun and a couple of barrels and have a good old time trying out various loads and for the most part just having fun.

The down side on th 9mm in the 10mm magazine is that there is still one round left inthe mag when the slide engages the slide stop.

I'm surprised that the 9mm feeds out of the 10mm mag. Might have to get in touch with JR and acquire one of those for my G20.

[DssG19]

This was settled in CC a long time ago:


http://i28.tinypic.com/2d1obw1.jpg

:rofl: Thats's some funny chit. However, I have personally seen more people give up the ghost to the 9mm that any other rounds. Probably due to it's popularity, but it ain't that bad. The stick man is smiling, lol.

[Rugby]

Have you guys noticed that the 40 165grain has a huge permenent cavity? Maybe its just me or the lighting.

What you see represents a TC of about 4".

[CZ93X62]

....having already been shot once.

All this 9mm vs. 40 vs. 45 stuff is gunrag drivel. Use good ammo and place the hits correctly and you'll be there to get sued by the assailant's survivors. The 9mm's principal problem is that it has been down-loaded about 20%-25% for most of its life in this country, just like the 8 x 57 Mauser.

Load the 9 to Euro specs, and it is a lot closer to the 357 Magnum than to the 38 Special. BTW--that much-celebrated sub-sonic 147 grain JHP is barely a standard-velocity 38 Special, and I have a lot of trouble understanding why the round is so popular--except that FBI and Dr. Fackler pimp it. My P-226 carries CCI/Speer 124 grain +P Gold Dots, which run about 1235 FPS from the pistol.

The 10mm is right fine stuff.

[MakeMineaP99]

There's Det. CZ with his his voice of reason and experience (sorry to hear that CZ, bet you made the SOB sorry).

With that said, I feel very well armed with a G17 and 52 rounds of Rangers, since I would have trouble concealing a long arm.

[ISUSteve]

What you see represents a TC of about 4".

What does that mean?

[MakeMineaP99]

What does that mean?

A temporary cavity of 4" exists. It's all a bunch of hype, it's a damn pistol, only meant to fight your way to a rifle. Place your shots well, select a good duty round, I prefer Rangers, set it and forget it. Have a long gun within reach.

[918v]

Double Tap's 45 ACP and 10mm performance is near identical, 14" of penetration and 1" of expansion. 45 HST expands to 1" as well.

I'm not convinced that any handgun round short of a 454 Casull has enough energy to influence incapacitation in any significant way. I am convinced, however, that the faster one bleeds out, the sooner he stops attacking.

[ISUSteve]

Isn't the black area a permenent cavity?

[918v]

I think in order to be more scientific, one would have to show the average wound cavity. Bullets do not perform consistently. Ammolab had a 20% failure rate with most JHP designs.

[MONTEGOD7SS]

I fall into the category of shooting factory ammo that you can load identically yourself. This means handloads for practice with Gold Dots/XTPs/Golden Sabers etc. and factory ammo with those bullets for carry. Call me paranoid, I'm ok with that.

[DssG19]

Isn't the black area a permenent cavity?

I don't think any pistol rounds creates a premenent wound channel. It expands then closes on itself. Maybe the S&W 500. I could be wrong.

[CZ93X62]

"Voice of reason?" My wife FELL OUT when she read that. Thanks, sir.

The Ranger SXT 40 S&W (180 grain) and 45 ACP (230 grain) were and are my old agency's carry rounds. I agree with the practice of loading a "service round duplicator" for range practice, and sticking with factory rounds for social matters. The several examples of these bullets I've seen removed at autopsy and (less frequently) in surgery all look like ad copy for Winchester ammunition. The 147 grain JHPs from 9mm's expand pretty well too--but there are more of them per recipient (on average) than with the 40 and 45. Statistically, all sorts of variables can move these "findings" all over the map--trying to make a firm statement about bullet performance is like filling buckets with steam.

Admin types just love these bullet/ammo discussions, and one of my rangemaster partners put their dream-sequence stopping-power speculations into a good context during a meeting one fine afternoon--in front of several said administrators. "Wonder bullets are nice, but the fact that 91% of our rounds fired DO NOT strike their intended target seems like a larger issue to me." He can be a real "skunk at the garden party", and does not suffer fools gladly. He has been a sergeant for quite some time, and with that sort of reality-based thinking he isn't LT or CPT material.

[HiddenEyes]

What happens if you get shot just a little bit?


Mr. HE:cool:

[gokyo]

I'm surprised that the 9mm feeds out of the 10mm mag. Might have to get in touch with JR and acquire one of those for my G20.

I would definitly talk to JR. I could not be happier with it.

Since I last posted. I tried some 115 grain bullets at 1100 and had pretty good feeding.

Out of 50 rounds I had one FTF it was a loaded round that stove piped. Also noticed more of the rounds ejecting right back at my head.

I kind of told JR that I would promote his product and do a range report on GT but I have not really been back since GP is up and rolling.

[G10mm]

I wonder what a 200 grain bullet going 2300FPS would do?:sifone:

[Gary Newport]

My first day on Glockpost and I discover a Caliber War instigated by a 10 MachoMeter fan! :yikes:

It's almost as if I'd never left GT CC! :dita:

[WalterGA]

Salutations, Gary! Nice to see you're over here! I rarely drop in on GT anymore. Still got some good friends over there, though!

[funkstafunkie]

When you look at the muzzle energy they all look pretty much the same.Haha, I got to this point and thought, "Stop wasting your time and step up to 10mm." Glad to see you've already done that. :supergrin:

[CZ93X62]

I think this particular Caliber War is pretty civilized, compared to the Mall Ninja Diatribes that take place at GT/CC.

Two where they're biggest, followed by one into the Brain Housing Group--continue until concept is fully transmitted.

[Tack]

So which is better 9mm, 40sw, or 45acp?

[Gary Newport]

So which is better 9mm, 40sw, or 45acp?

Yes.

[freakshow10mm]

32 H&R

[pastprime]

I'm sure most of you have seen this but I enjoy reading it every now and then when I think of buying another firearm in a caliber I've never had.......

www.internetarmory.com/handgunammo.htm (http://www.internetarmory.com/handgunammo.htm)

Sometimes it saves me money...sometimes it cost me money...

[918v]

So which is better 9mm, 40sw, or 45acp?

10mm, of course. What a silly question!

[zdogk9]

.392 Monkey Magnum

[soundwave]

.392 Monkey Magnum

+P?

[layusn1]

22lr...aim for the ribs so it bounces around and goes all blender on the bad guys guts... :rofl:

[918v]

9mm, just wear a blue arm band when you run away.

[zdogk9]

Fandango Fire

[RustyFN]

Damn, I read the title and had a Caliber Corner flash back. I think I'm OK now.
Rusty

[nitesite]

I'm tryin' to perfect the turducken-pistol-round™ before 918V gets his patent.

Just like taking a small chicken, stuffed in a duck's butt, then packed&shoved up inside of a turkey's ass, TURDUCKEN!

I'm close to purfectin' the concept. Fur real. I'm using the tip of a 115-gr 9mm FMJ hot-glued over the HP cavity of a .40S&W Gold Dot and the whole thang pressed up inside the base of a 230-gr .45ACP that's had the guts melted out of it.

I'm bettin it'll be a triple-threat handgun bullet that is on par with a LAW rocket as far as devastation.

[funkstafunkie]

I'm close to purfectin' the concept. Fur real. I'm using the tip of a 115-gr 9mm FMJ hot-glued over the HP cavity of a .40S&W Gold Dot and the whole thang pressed up inside the base of a 230-gr .45ACP that's had the guts melted out of it.Duuuuude! I just got the greatest idea evar! Take a .22 LR cartridge, stuff it inside a 9mm bullet (as far as it'll go), and glue the 9mm bullet to a .400" bullet, and stick that in a .40 S&W or 10mm Auto case on top of a healthy charge of Bullseye.

[Oreo]

Someone posted this over on another site. I got a real kick out of it:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Mohaaplayer/a5ae4fb030-1.jpg

[funkstafunkie]

Greatness!

[craig110]

...and that isn't even the 10mm Monkey Magnum load. :yikes:

[rat5545]

to be quite honest with you, I don't think I'd like to be shot with any of them, and I'm fairly sure without my zombie powers or hype'd up on drugs (gee that doesn't happen either) they could take me out with a lot less with a well placed shot.

[gokyo]

Someone posted this over on another site. I got a real kick out of it:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Mohaaplayer/a5ae4fb030-1.jpg

Oh god that is precious. I am seriously LMAO.

Thank you.

[unclebob]

It does not make a hill of beans if you use a 9mm, 40S&W, 45acp, 10mm, etc. It is what gun, caliber you can shoot, and what you have on you when you need it. What ever it is at that time. It well not be big enough.

[Oreo]

It don't GET any bigger then the 10mm TsarBomba JHP.

[918v]

I actually prefer 9mm with JSP bullets.

[CZ93X62]

918v--

You might have something there, with the JSP idea. I've seen several JHP bullets pulled at autopsy/surgery that were partially to completely filled with cloth/carnage souffle, and these did not expand as much overall as unfilled JHPs (not a great-big sample population, but there it is there). A JSP might have a better chance of penetrating coverings/clothing without "cookie-cutter" fill-up of a cavity, essentially leaving the expansion-triggering medium--the soft nose lead--to be affected by impact dynamics and not so much by foreign materials.

I suppose the bottom line here is that ballistic gelatin doesn't shoot back--and assailants only get chilled to 40* F AFTER the shooting--not before.

[freakshow10mm]

9mm JSP:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/shot33times.jpg

[MakeMineaP99]

Det. CZ--

Are your qualitative comments (we've all seen the gel tests, quantitative) concerning all JHPs in 9mm from different manufacturers or confined to a single design/manufacturer?

Would a JSP be ideal in a handgun bullet? While I don't question the ability of a JSP in a rifle round, JHP would lend itself be being a better expander at handgun velocities.

Or how about one of those polymer tipped SST or Interlocks in 9mm? There's the next generation of handgun ammo. I can already see it on the news, "Hornady develops cop killing, vest penetrating, brick wall crushing, .5" armor plate piecing bullet."

[918v]

Early JSP designs were flawed in that the jacket was not pre-stressed and actually hindered expansion. Today, we have the Speer JSP, which features a pure lead core and a plated copper jacket that is cut completely through the lead. It expands at low velocities. It will do the job.

[MakeMineaP99]

Would you carry the Speer JSP?

I'm happy with my RA9TA and will continue to carry Rangers for some time.

[918v]

Heck Yeah!

I have made some awesome SD loads in the past by pulling +P Gold Dots and subtrituting these JSP's.

[slowride]

I'd carry my G22, or my G19.
Not to say that I don't like the .45acp; I shoot the 9mm and .40s&w more often, and better.
Carry what you're comfortable with, become as efficient with your weapon as possible, and practice.

Don't buy into the "this caliber is the best" crap. BTW, I love caliber wars!!!!!!!

[G10mm]

Someone posted this over on another site. I got a real kick out of it:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Mohaaplayer/a5ae4fb030-1.jpg
:iagree: DDDDammmmm that's whats im talking about

[Steve Koski]

I dunno. I'd have to see some test results. The JSP's I've fired into milk jugs went FOREVER. I'm skeeptical.

[918v]

Which JSP's did you fire?

[Gary Newport]

Someone posted this over on another site. I got a real kick out of it:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/Mohaaplayer/a5ae4fb030-1.jpg

Caliber Wars and Photo Shop -- the perfect combination!