Bleeding face

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

OK, First let me say that I know that there are going to be at last 2 of you "not saying names" that are going to say its because of the gun manufactor. Im pissed as it is so I dont need it.

Taurus 454 Casull. 8 inch
Several months back when I decided to purchase this gun I was really in love. when RenoF250 and I took it out to shoot "hornady factory loads, 260 and 300 grn XTP" we had noticed that ever time It shot we were getting blasted in the face with what we thought was un burnt powder. we then realized that it was copper shavings from the bullet. fgured that out as I was pulling copper from my face that night. I shrugged it off as being the ammo because I had also ran speer and corbon loads threw and hadent really noticed it happening. for the last 2 months I have been shooting lead and had no problems. Dad surprised me with a guided pig hunt that he booked for January for the both of us to take our two Taurus 454 Casull's and prove that handgun hunters can still get close enough to game and get a clean, good kill. So I orderd a scope and mount for the gun. got it last week and decided to go and sight it in along with the 30-06 rounds for the deer trip in two months.

All was a great day the 30-06 sighted in great with the new load "other thread" then I sighted in the 45-70 with its new Burris timberline scope "love it"

Now the Casull. first shoot sent copper into my buddies face that was spotting for me, so he moved back. I managed to get about 30 rounds threw before I had to stop because my face is bleeding from 6 cuts on my left cheek. YES 6 CUTS WITH 3 OF THEM I PULLED COPPER OUT ABOUT AN HOUR AGO. I am more pissed than I have ever been. First thought is that the Hornady 300 grn XTP mag bullets are just to weak as far as the copper jacket. Then I started looking at the Forcing cone. gap isnt bad between cylinder and barrel and its right between .005 and .006. but i am noticeing that there is a several brownish burnt color on each side of the barrel. forcing cone looks fine "at leat to my eye" except for one little section where there appears to be a piece of copper edgeing on the first part of the left side of the forcing cone "on my left cheek side, the damaged side" I have tried to scrap it off with my finger nail and it wont budge.

I am at a loss on what to do. Is it the ammo, should I try other Handloads with different bullets. call hornady, or all Taurus and have a holly fit. I am at a loss with this and more disapointed than anything. I am so pissed that I have half a mind to tell Taurus i want my money back. but I love the gun, I like it over freedom arms "dad has one" and thought since I have three other Taurus guns that have NEVER had an issue that I shouldnt give up. maybe I just need time to cool down.

any thought's
:mad:

[MakeMineaP99]

Have you checked the timing? This echo's all the signs of a classic timing problem.

[Glooooock]

Yup , watch the cylinder as you fire an empty gun . It should be indexed with the hammer back . Rock solid with the hammer down / trigger held back.

Try a good cleaning with the side plate off lube with thin oil / spray .

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

Yup , watch the cylinder as you fire an empty gun . It should be indexed with the hammer back . Rock solid with the hammer down / trigger held back.

Try a good cleaning with the side plate off lube with thin oil / spray .

Trying this right now, with the hammer back I can mover the cylinder "not much" but just a Little its about the same as my S&W mod 29 8 inch and that dosent do it to me. hammer down trigger back does the same, just a little wiggle like the S&W. I dont think I have even been as upset and pissed at any gun "excpet maybe my first Kimber" as this.

I hate sending things back to the manufactor, but also hate paying a gun smith to do this work.

Im gonna go get some whisky BRB

[freakshow10mm]

Does sound like a timing thing. Seems like the cylinder chamber is offset just a wee bit enough to strip the jacket as the bullet enters the cone. Not a clue how to fix it, but sounds like the sync is off.

[AdamN]

If you have a range rod or some other good fitting rod that will go down the bore, when you have the hammer down and trigger held back you should be able to slide a range rod down the barrel, all the way to the breech face.

Basicly what youre looking for is any mis-alignment.

From your description it sounds like there may be a sharp edge on the forcing cone. Even with a slight mis-alignment a smooth forcing cone will ease the bullet into the barrel.

The end result is you need to call Taurus, a bloody face after a few rounds is something they need to fix.

[MullahElRon]

Back she goes.

[craig110]

...we had noticed that ever time It shot we were getting blasted in the face with what we thought was un burnt powder. we then realized that it was copper shavings from the bullet. fgured that out as I was pulling copper from my face that night. I shrugged it off ...


A suggested lesson out of this for everyone: Don't pull copper out of your face, shrug it off and shoot the gun again. :rolleyes5:

[Glooooock]

Check the index notches in the cylinder , my python would cake up with powder residue in the notches . It would spit lead

[BigDog[RE]]

The first time you got hit in the face with copper shavings, you should have stopped. Call Taurus and send it back to them, they will make it right, and it comes with a lifetime warranty.l

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

Called Taurus this morning. guy answered and asked what he could help me with. I informed him that this gun that I fell in love with 4 months back is spitting copper back in my face. he asked what ammo I was using,"never asked about reloads" and how bad it was spitting out the copper shavings. Once I told him it was bad enough to cause SIX cuts on my face and pulled 3 copper slivers out of my cheek; he got a little high pitched in the voice "Sir you need to ship that gun to us right now !!!!! It needs to be looked at"
well no crap. so now I have to pull the scope off and pack it up.

As you can tell I'm still pissed as all heck, a little bit at myself and more towards the gun. But I guess I have to say that out of as many guns I have, and have owned I have only had to send one gun back "Kimber 1911" so this being the second one aint bad but still dosent thrill me in any way. I guess its a 4-6 week turn around. hope they get it figured out


Ohh yea, What is the best way to ship a handgun ??????? FED-EX, UPS, does it have to be overnight??

[MakeMineaP99]

UPS and FedEx policy require handguns to go over night. However, the USC and CFR have no such requirement and further, delivery to a licensed manufacturer does NOT require disclosure of the contents of the package.

18 USC §922(e)

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

27 CFR § 478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped

That said, USPS is the cheapest option, but you need to be a licensee to ship concealable firearms, including handguns, through the mail. You'll need to find a friendly FFL to go this route.

[Steve Koski]

Yikes!!!

[CZ93X62]

BGGB--

Sorry to hear about the revolver acting up in this way. I concur with the above views that either the cylinder isn't "clocking" correctly, or the forcing cone is screwy, or both.

If you don't want to mess with the shipping part of the deal, perhaps the retailer who sold you the revolver would be willing to handle the matter. I know what Title 18/Sec 922 et seq SAYS, but in CA the common carriers make the rules up as they go along and I am long past being tired of their kabuki theater over gun shipments. The few times I've had to send a gun back to the maker or to a 'smith I just have a dealer manage it. The dealer gets a little coin out of it and I'm spared the aggravation. The guy I refer to takes good care of me, so I don't mind the small expense.

That M-29 you mention will make bacon as well as the Taurus would.

[Glooooock]

I just did this , SIG emailed me a shipping label for over night UPS . Its a PDF file so the bar code and label size looks good .

I asked about FFL / ATF rules , they said don't worry we do it all the time . Still Leary ,I had it sent to my work . I do remember they preferred the pistol in its plastic case / box it was sold in , inside the plain outer box . I used the UPS store , just dropped it on the counter -- the girl said your good see ya .

[Crazy4nitro]

BGGB-
My Ruger was sent back Via UPS. It cost me 58 Bux...:hereyago:
I wasnt aware that it could be shipped Via USPS..like 14 as cheap.
MMP99 has it right...I say USPS.....Ruger also sent it to my house via USPS.18 Bux
My understanding from them (Ruger)is that they can ship to my house with no FFL involved as I'm the Legal owner.

Sorry to hear of your frustration. Maybe you can Borrow a "Crack Killa" from ept000....lol

Meanwhile....Heres a Bunny with a Pancake on its head.
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb89/girlscout_2007/pancake_bunny.jpg

'Nitro

[MakeMineaP99]

USPS shippments of concealable firearms must be between licensees, Ruger screwed up!

http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1065404

[Crazy4nitro]

Ha Ha

[CZ93X62]

Yeah--or the Federales have (correctly) concluded that no Ruger firearm is "concealable".

As if all this regulatory nonsense would prevent a Murrah bombing or WTC attack. Typical governmental response to issues--

1) Awareness/perception of crisis/problem

2) Search for the guilty

3) Punishment of the innocent

4) Awards/promotion for the uninvolved

[MakeMineaP99]

Common sense and logic in the United States government? :rofl: You owe me a need keyboard, Det. CZ. ;) So true it's funny.

[CZ93X62]

You want one of those gay GAP keyboards that is more user friendly (bent in the middle like discount steaks at some burger stand), or one of the gayer wireless things that my wife thinks are so chi-chi-oui-oui?

[MakeMineaP99]

Ouch, Det. CZ. I'll have you know I like my Logitech wireless keyboard, nothing like reclining in your chair and browsing the net.

[Crazy4nitro]

Ouch, Det. CZ. I'll have you know I like my Logitech wireless keyboard, nothing like reclining in your chair and browsing the net.

I'll take that one step Further MMP99..hehe

Especially when the wireless keyboard is in front of the 42"LCD TV hooked to the Computer.
Gotta love Modern Tech.

'Nitro

[gokyo]

USPS shippments of concealable firearms must be between licensees, Ruger screwed up!

http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1065404

isn't there something about sending firearms back to manufacturer for repairs and Not needing an ffl?

[MakeMineaP99]

Yes, the exception does exist in the GCA, for repair to a licensee. However, the postal service has more strict rules, and firearms must travel licensee to licensee, common carriers are different.

[Glooooock]

isn't there something about sending firearms back to manufacturer for repairs and Not needing an ffl?

Post # 15 ,, I shipped my pistol from with UPS on a prepaid label ( It has to be overnight ). I got it back in two weeks . I have no FFL ,, registered owner to manufacture / repair . Even in California :patriot:

[Bush Pilot]

A suggested lesson out of this for everyone: Don't pull copper out of your face, shrug it off and shoot the gun again. :rolleyes5:

You forgot to mention contacting a good PI attorney.

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

Talked with Taurus again this morning, I came to the conclusion that they should ship it for me. the fella and I didnt exactly hit it off at first, it was kinda like a dog fight. BUT at the end I made a new buddy, and learned alot from this gentleman. his is arrangeing for it to be picked up first thing in the morning., Hopefully this problem can be resolved and I can get back to getting me some bacon.

boom

[creophus]

Good luck. Be glad that Taurus didn't do what Microsoft would have done...call this a feature and charge you extra for it.

They'd come out with a marketing campaign to match. The voice over would go something like this:

"Taurus new Fo Fitty Fo...now with so much powa' it will make yo face bleed....sucka!"

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

hahahahahahhahahaha

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

Good luck. Be glad that Taurus didn't do what Microsoft would have done...call this a feature and charge you extra for it.

They'd come out with a marketing campaign to match. The voice over would go something like this:

"Taurus new Fo Fitty Fo...now with so much powa' it will make yo face bleed....sucka!"

thanks but i just had to add that to my sgnature

I AM REALLY IMPRESSED WITH MIKE AT TAURUS, ONE HELL OF A GUY. made me belive in them again, hope it all works out

[MakeMineaP99]

Yeah, only after you hammered him, eh?

[SSDD45]

B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, [B]Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]


(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back (javascript:history.back(1))]
Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

[creophus]

thanks but i just had to add that to my sgnature

I AM REALLY IMPRESSED WITH MIKE AT TAURUS, ONE HELL OF A GUY. made me belive in them again, hope it all works out
Glad you got a kick out of that. Even added it to your signature! SWEET.:thumbsup:

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

Yeah, only after you hammered him, eh?
well you can tell he was one of those fellas that gets you all wound up to see if your lieng or not being truthful. ask's all the right questions just different each time. I think hes a retired LEO. but yes, my biggest thing is that I refused to pay shipping. I felt they needed to; since it wasnt my fault.

well see when it comes backk

[MakeMineaP99]

B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, [B]Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

This is misleading, look at 18 USC §922(e) and 27 CFR §478.31 which I referenced before. The common carrier only be notified the package contains a firearm, if and only if the firearm is not being delivered to a licensee.

18 USC §922(e)

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

27 CFR § 478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped

[CZ93X62]

No offense intended, 99. Just woofing ya.

The keyboard, the net connect, all o' that is wireless here. Yeah, it's nice--but I have my wife to thank for it. Left to me, I'd still be writing letters on an IBM Selectric.

[Washington,D.C.]

My freedom Arms Casulls have really tight cylinder gaps. They came with all sorts of warnings not to handload using 45 Colt dies, (load data was included), not to fire 45 Colt in the 454 Casull cylinders. One has an extra 45 Colt cylinder. They can spit out some jacket material from the cylinder gap to the sides. At least one of them anyway. I caught the guy on the bench next to me right between the eyes just above his nose. He was bleeding but wasn't badly hurt. He was from England and shooting black powder.

[Boge]

The answer to the problem is not pretty. If your revolver is spitting that bad it's usually not merely an indexing problem nor simply the forcing cone. Taurus, as well as many other cheaper revolver manufacturers, are notorious for drilling the holes off in a cylinder. Cure: new cylinder. I just unloaded a POS used Taurus .44 Special that you needed a welders mask to shoot. I had a Rossi 720 like that as well. It's simply Third World revolver making at its worst. I will never buy another Taurus nor Rossi revolver again. Basically they are garbage IMO. :yesnod:

[Brass Nazi]

The problem is it is a Taurus!

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

Well I dont agree with you guys, I have had over 10 different Taurus's, 6 that I still own, and this is the first problem, I also own other revolvers IE S&W,BFR,COLT. and think that these days it is just more luck of the draw wether a gun has problems or not. I have had S&W go bad, my dads FA had issues. comes down to luck of the draw.

but to each his own.

[yammerschooner]

Yeah--or the Federales have (correctly) concluded that no Ruger firearm is "concealable".

As if all this regulatory nonsense would prevent a Murrah bombing or WTC attack. Typical governmental response to issues--

1) Awareness/perception of crisis/problem

2) Search for the guilty

3) Punishment of the innocent

4) Awards/promotion for the uninvolved

It doesn't get any truer than that.

Don't forget the thing about creating multi-billion dollar agencies that suck up tax money and lobby to erode citizens' rights.

[creekwalker]

I've had nothing but positive experence with Taurus revolvers and pistols as well as their customer service. I've also owned high end very expensive S&W revolvers and pistols that new out of the box had the worst quality of anything I've ever seen, got rid of a 5" and 8 3/8" M-27's because of this and the response from S&W to the problem. Didn't do any business with them for years afterward and still don't unless it's a hangun I know the history on.

CW

[Blackdog]

Don't forget the thing about creating multi-billion dollar agencies that suck up tax money and lobby to erode citizens' rights.

Amen.

[Gary Davidson]

Looks like you are going to be taken care of by Taurus. As was mentioned earlier, if you buy a lot of revolvers, it might be good to beg, borrow or buy a revolver range rod for the caliber you are looking to buy:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=655&title=REVOLVER%20RANGE%20RODS