So what type of gun DON'T you have?

[creophus]

For me, I don't own a lever action rifle and I don't own a blackpowder rifle.

I've got almost every other type of firearm though.

I don't own a single shot firearm either.

What about the rest of you guys?

[Crazy4nitro]

I dont own a High Power rifle of any kind....
I have a .45-70 thats my biggest. (High power enough for me)

I always though that a .300Mag would be my first but it looks as if .223 will be my first since Adam has Polluted me with an AR-15 Lower GB that I couldnt resist.

'Nitro

[creophus]

Ha ha! Yeah, that's one of the best Group Buys I've ever seen. Normally it's some obscure product that no one wanted with a 5% discount if 100 million people commit to buying something.

Keep in mind that you can add various uppers to that lower. 6.8 or 6.5 Grendel could be your caliber of choice for your first high power rifle.

[MakeMineaP99]

Don't own a revolver or a full auto (yet).

[chewy]

I "need" a blackpowder rifle. Ain't never had one and the more different hunts I apply for (centerfire, Bow and Black Powder) the better my chances are of getting a draw on a Muley.
I wouldn't mind one of them New England Firearms single shots in say 44 mag or 45 Colt.

[creophus]

You can buy black powder rifles without dealing with FFL regulations right?

[MakeMineaP99]

Yes and no. Any firearm made before 1898 is classified as an antique and can be bought or sold free of restrictions from the GCA. Further, the GCA exempts muzzleloading firearms from restrictions, such as age, prohibited persons and record keeping requirements.

However, if the frame or receive of such muzzleloading firearm can accept barrels and/or actions that fire fixed metallic/non-metalic ammunition, it is a firearm as defined under the GCA. T/C Encore comes to mind.

[Glooooock]

I dont have .

A fancy over/under skeet gun
Any black powder guns
No cowboy guns
No .223s in semi-auto
No junk surplus bolt guns from WW twice , P38 pistols , ammo that comes in sardine cans , commemorative 1911s with john Wayne on them , Saturday night specials , snub nosed wheel guns , Ultra mag Remington bolt guns , nothing from ruger or Beretta . Nothing suppressed or ported .No quiggly rifles or schutzenfest guns , 36" goose guns .

But have thought about buying them all .:yikes:

[creophus]

Makes sense. So something like Knight muzzle loader would be exempt then right? I see these advertised on cheaperthandirt and cabellas and maybe even midwayusa.

[MakeMineaP99]

Yes, a muzzleloader can be shipped freely in interstate commerce to your residence and even a prohibited person under the GCA can possess muzzleloading firearms.

[creophus]

Cool. I'll keep that in mind if I'm ever a convicted felon.

[Crazy4nitro]

I dont have .

A fancy over/under skeet gun
Any black powder guns
No cowboy guns
No .223s in semi-auto
No junk surplus bolt guns from WW twice , P38 pistols , ammo that comes in sardine cans , commemorative 1911s with john Wayne on them , Saturday night specials , snub nosed wheel guns , Ultra mag Remington bolt guns , nothing from ruger or Beretta . Nothing suppressed or ported .No quiggly rifles or schutzenfest guns , 36" goose guns .

But have thought about buying them all .:yikes:




he probably has a 45Gap

[The10mmKid]

It will be easier to state what I own vs not

Semi Auto Pistols
A Semi Auto 22LR
A bolt action 300WinMag

Excuuuuuuuuse me . . . . I'm just getting started :sifone:

The10mmKid

[MakeMineaP99]

Cool. I'll keep that in mind if I'm ever a convicted felon.

I can't see an upstanding engineer such as yourself becoming a criminal.

[MakeMineaP99]

It will be easier to state what I own vs not

Semi Auto Pistols
A Semi Auto 22LR
A bolt action 300WinMag

Excuuuuuuuuse me . . . . I'm just getting started :sifone:

The10mmKid

Nothing wrong with that, firearms multiple over time, bewarned.

[creophus]

I can't see an upstanding engineer such as yourself becoming a criminal.
Thanks for the vote of confidence! Everything I like to do would be compromised should something like that happen.

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

I dont have a Black Powder rifle
No cowboy guns

[Glooooock]

:icon_bs:he probably has a 45Gap:icon_bs:

[creophus]

I have a few centerfire revolvers. "Cowboy" guns aren't even on my radar. Surely a cowboy action shooter would never criticize a GAP shooter.

[soundwave]

Don't own:

Revolver
Lever action rifle
Bolt action Rifle
Pocket Pistol
Black powder rifle
Auto loader shotgun

Gonna get a revolver soon though.

[GLOCKENNBOOMER]

Don't own semi shotgun or o/u or SxS
Don't own any MG's
No suppressed stuff either.

[ede]

i don't own:
black powder firearms
single shot rifles or pistols
bolt action pistols
OU, SS, or auto shotguns, only a couple of riot guns for me
no pump rifles
no big bore revolvers like the .460 or .500

[chewy]

Don't own semi shotgun or o/u or SxS
Don't own any MG's
No suppressed stuff either.

I have many suppressed things. Unfortunately none are fire arms.

[craig110]

Since I only have 3 guns, asking me to list the categories I don't own is like asking a billionaire to list his stocks and bonds. The main categories, though, is that I don't have a good target gun, a black powder gun, anything with a big bore (not counting my 12ga), any domestic military rifle, or anything FA or suppressed. I'm aiming to rectify the first three when I get into the T/C Encore line.

[CZ93X62]

No full autos or suppressed war toys--been there/done that at work, and I'm glad someone else paid for the ammo.

No (more) cap & ball revolvers. I started to really dislike those cranky critters, and found people who appreciated their personality quirks and afflictions.

No self-loading shotguns. No S x S or O/U shotguns. I speak Model 12, Model 37, and Model 870. Only.

[Werdna]

I dont have a lever action, revolver or muzzle loader. I plan to fix this problem ASAP!

Actually I just won a auction on gunbroker for a ruger blackhawk 41 mag, but the seller has not contacted me yet. My email to him got an auto response saying he would be out of the office until the 8th :(

[RustyFN]

I don't have a lever gun, cowboy gun, shotgun, muzzle loader or full auto.
Rusty

[AlPackin]

I don't have many of the cool guns that I would like to have but the ones that I do have love me :)

[Pitmaster]

I'm missing a water pistol.

[AlPackin]

I'm missing a water pistol.

dang you must have a humungous safe PM :yikes:

[Mogollon]

I don't have a DD....yet

[creophus]

I don't have a DD....yet
Are you considering an M203??

[MakeMineaP99]

I bet 20mm.

[creophus]

The 40mm is twice as good.

[blueline541]

I don't have a Browning Hi-Power or a nice Kimber. They're on the short list.

[freakshow10mm]

Ha ha! Yeah, that's one of the best Group Buys I've ever seen.
Ha! You ain't seen nothing yet. I got confirmed "I'll take" orders for 80K .223 bullets so far. And it hasn't even begun yet.

[Mogollon]

Actually, should I win the lottery someday, I was thinkin' an active M-3 or M-5 Stuart Tank

[Frostback]

I don't have any Black Powder, FA or "Cowboy" guns (I don't have any "Cowboy shoes" either, kind of odd considering where I'm from).

Frosty

[MakeMineaP99]

Actually, should I win the lottery someday, I was thinkin' an active M-3 or M-5 Stuart Tank

What's one of those run? With your seven figure salary, shouldn't take long to save up.

[freakshow10mm]

Actually, should I win the lottery someday, I was thinkin' an active M-3 or M-5 Stuart Tank
I'm sure Dillon can get their DD FFL and you guys already have an SOT class 2. Just make one.

[TwoShot]

I dont have any stolen ones!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (yet)

M-110 or this one. (ETA : But i did shoot them)

[45auto]

I don't have a flint lock, I don't have a lever gun, or a MG.
I have one shotgun, a pump 12ga...
I don't have a pistol cal carbine...
I don't have a SA .22 rifle...
I need more guns. :)

[Shovel66]

I need more guns also. It would be easier to list what I have vs. what I don't have. But for starters I don't have...........

A shotgun
A long gun longer than 18 inch barrel
A handgun larger than .454 Casull
A handgun smaller than .22 LR
A Smith & Wesson revolver (have 3 Rugers though)

Shovel

[zipper046]

no AR, no sporting shotgun (mossberg 500A for deer, though), no STI, no high power rifle....got some shopping to do..hope the bonus comes through!!!

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Gotta get me a boomer revolver since my .38 snubbie is the only one I got. Probably an AR cuz that's the American thing to do. Need a mini-gun, a Ma Duece, and probably and Advanced Tactical Laser. Those are really what I "need", but there are of course others that are on the "want" list.

[Boge]

I have a few centerfire revolvers. "Cowboy" guns aren't even on my radar. Surely a cowboy action shooter would never criticize a GAP shooter.


You're right. I'm both. :patriot:

[Steve Koski]

I don't have:

Any lever guns
Any pump guns
Any muzzle loaders
Any bird guns
Any cowboy guns
Any politically correct guns
Any GAPs

[Brass Nazi]

I don't have a GAP, a Glock or one of those assaulting guns.

[JW6108]

No slide action
No single action revolver
No black powder
No NFA stuff

I have had all of the above at one time or another, except NFA items.



Suppressed, hmm........

http://www.yeoldearcheryshoppe.com/silencer-cough-muffler-hardwoods-green-p-2883.html

Wonder if somebody makes one for the other end?

I could use it. :biggrinjester:

[MakeMineaP99]

Get yourself a .22 can.

[Pitmaster]

I don't have any guns. BO doesn't want us to have guns.

[ISUSteve]

I don't have a good CCW weapon and a good tactical precision rifle. Yeah, I want a tacticool sniper rifle.

[zdogk9]

I wanna WMD
I gave my complete armory to some homeless person walking by the shack the other day.

[MakeMineaP99]

I don't have a good CCW weapon and a good tactical precision rifle. Yeah, I want a tacticool sniper rifle.

If you own a pistol, you can carry it.

[Bush Pilot]

Nothing full auto (thanks Washington state), no muzzleloader

[ISUSteve]

If you own a pistol, you can carry it.

I have a full-size Glock, a 1911, and a 6" S&W 66. I can't can't carry those comfortably or concealed. I don't want to wear a winter jacket in the summer.

[Boge]

..I don't want to wear a winter jacket in the summer.

Why not? It's the perfect disguise, especially when you haven't bathed nor shaved and are pushing a grocery cart down the street. Think of it as deep undercover CCW. :biggrinjester:

[MONTEGOD7SS]

You could always go with the "shoot me first" fishing vest.

[Boge]

You could always go with the "shoot me first" fishing vest.

I had one of the original Banana Republic photog vests back in the 80's when I was young, handsome & dashing and all chicks wanted me & every man envied me. Nowadays, these vests just scream "gun".

[ISUSteve]

The only people that know that those vests cover up your gun is us. By us, I mean the people who have guns.

[BigSlick]

People who don't carry don't even notice

[zougou]

I don't have any grenades, does that count?

[BigSlick]

I don't have any real nice old 16 gauge stuff, or anything in a nice .410 pump

[ASH]

I dont have any Class III, lever action, or black powder. I have some hunting rifles, but I think my next gun will be some sort of heavy barrel bolt action in .308.

[creophus]

You're right. I'm both. :patriot:
Yep. No surprise there.

ASH you thinking of getting a tactical .308? What are you looking at?

[ASH]

Well a good friend has a savage model 10 with the HS precision stock and it will shoot mighty fine with the right ammo. I am gonna gheck these out. I really have not thought about what to look at yet but when it hits me I will get down to research. This will not be for a while though because I am also an expectant father Creo. The only way I could swing it would be to sell something else to pay for it and I aint in the selling mood these days!

[creophus]

Congratulations Ash!!! I didn't know you were expecting! Don't sell guns, sell other stuff that you don't need and don't want anymore.

[nitesite]

ASH, Congratulations!

[ASH]

Thanks yall we are expecting a Girl in May. Life sho gonna change!

[Tailgunner]

Lets see, I currently own bolt, SxS and O/U shotties, and in the past I've owned pump and auto loaders.
I've owned revolvers, semi and singleshot.
I own bolt, semi, lever, singleshot and pump rifles (but I still prefer my Mausers)
I own a charcoal burner, and it's not my first one either.
But I DON'T (and won't) own a "black rifle". I fired one of those POS twice with one HEAVY trigger pull (first and last time). Sorry, but RELIABILITY is #1 on my list of requirments, and a trigger pull thats less than the weight of the rifle fully loaded is a close second.

[Pitmaster]

Looks like everyone here must own a derringer but me.

[ISUSteve]

I would never own a derringer. My grandma had one in 38 special and it kicked like a mule. I was 10 when I shot it, but I'll never forget it. She was one tough lady.

[MONTEGOD7SS]

They make em in .45-70 too. You saying you aren't man enough to handle one of those, Steve?

[jawjaboy]

Da tubes on my slingshot need ta be borned again. Tactical tubes, silent, world a hurt, fatal even. Accurate as you are.

[ISUSteve]

They make em in .45-70 too. You saying you aren't man enough to handle one of those, Steve?

I'd try it. I'm not much a man though.

[TwoShot]

I'd try it. I'm not much a man though.

dont be to tough on yourself Steve..We know that the part that counts the most works.:yikes:

[MONTEGOD7SS]

TwoShot, his wife is pregnant, that is no proof that HIS parts are working. :)

[chewy]

I want a gun that will high-light my gluts.

[ISUSteve]

TwoShot, his wife is pregnant, that is no proof that HIS parts are working. :)

Ouch.

[creophus]

TwoShot, his wife is pregnant, that is no proof that HIS parts are working. :)
Dang! Tough room.

[MakeMineaP99]

I carry a fullsize Glock daily, Steve. You just need to man up and do it. ;)

[TwoShot]

dont be to tough on yourself Steve..We know that the part that counts the most works.:yikes:
I was referring to his mind.:biggrinjester: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ISUSteve]

I carry a fullsize Glock daily, Steve. You just need to man up and do it. ;)

I should, but that thing heavy when loaded with 16 180 grainers. I don't have a waist to hold up my pants. What's a cheap decent holster? I could do it now in the winter.

[ISUSteve]

I was referring to his mind.:biggrinjester: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Nah, that's on the fritz.

[MakeMineaP99]

I should, but that thing heavy when loaded with 16 180 grainers. I don't have a waist to hold up my pants. What's a cheap decent holster? I could do it now in the winter.

Cheap and decent are mutually exclusive words. Spend the $ on some good leather. I carry in a Little Feather myself, Rafters ain't bad, Milt Sparks is good but a hell of a wait, Lou Alessi is good, but $$$$, Galco got some stuff you might like, High Noon makes a good quality holster on the cheap, Tucker has some good stuff out and makers a clone of the MS WMII if that's your thing.

I'd be happy to donate some of my waist to you if needed. ;)

I carry a G17, hardly notice it. I've had it on in excess of 24 hours in one sitting. Once you get used to it, you'll understand why it's called a sidearm.

[chewy]

I was suprised with the basic plastic Glock Holster. Holds it high and tight. I also like the Fobus paddle holsters cuz the draw good, don't have to undo a belt to get it on and off= I carry more often.

[ISUSteve]

I just don't want to spend a lot on a carry holster for my Glock when I won't end up carrying it.

[MakeMineaP99]

Good leather is worth the price, whether you carry one day or everyday. :yesnod:

[chewy]

I just don't want to spend a lot on a carry holster for my Glock when I won't end up carrying it.
Glock plastic holster and the Fobus jobber are pretty cheap. leather's cool, but I'm a cheap bastard and reserve leather for revolvers. Although i got a Fobus Holster for my S&W 686+ too.

[chewy]

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=594181

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=226293

[ISUSteve]

I've got a paddle holster. I think I went with a Uncle Mikes. I don't use except for when I'm at the range when I'm nervous about getting my guns stolen.

Does anybody carry OWB with a full size pistol? I'd think it would be hanging out of the bottom of my coat.

[MakeMineaP99]

I prefer IWB. I have some OWB, but unless I'm screwing around up north, I don't use 'em.

[chewy]

for IWB I'm a "Clipdraw" goon. Can were my G-27 in the summer with shorts and T-shirt and not print at all.

[ISUSteve]

Do you use the Safe-T-Block thing?

[chewy]

Yep. I get flamed alot for it. But it is very adaptable, just takes a little practice, not pernament, and will still fit in a fobus or Glock holster (the Clipdraw thingy I mean). Plus, I've done the whole grabbing a chambered Glock when hearing my lesbo neighbors (when living in Apts) fighting during aparty they were having and I very likely had my finger in the trigger with a head full of sleep. After that is when I started looking into the Safty Blok thingy.

[RugerFan58]

I don't have any full autos, lever guns{need to change that}, shotguns, flintlocks,or a good squirrel gun like a 10/22. I thinned the herd quite a bit a couple of years ago.
But I DON'T (and won't) own a "black rifle". I fired one of those POS twice with one HEAVY trigger pull (first and last time). Sorry, but RELIABILITY is #1 on my list of requirments, and a trigger pull thats less than the weight of the rifle fully loaded is a close second.Nice thing about the evil black rifles is if you don't like part of it you can replace it with something you DO like. I just ordered two RRA trigger assemblies for my two Bushmasters. Much better that the triggers that can with them.

I just don't want to spend a lot on a carry holster for my Glock when I won't end up carrying it.Blackhawk makes some nice plastic holsters that have the push button release and can be mounted on your belt a number of ways that'll make your Glock hard to spot. I bought two of them from Dallas Tactical Supply for short money early last year. If you shop around you can probably find a good deal on one.

[mdg132]

I do not have a full auto or a over/under or double barrel oh yeah no assault style weapon do have high power stuff if I need to reach out.

[blueline541]

Good leather is worth the price, whether you carry one day or everyday. :yesnod:



Speaking of holsters: A friend of mine rolled up Monday with a huge box of brand new Bianchi holsters. All kinds and only $30 each. I scored a new lined ankle holster for my 27. Only $30 and not stolen. It was a box full of bargains.

[MakeMineaP99]

Damn, some guys have all the luck. ;)

[Tailgunner]

Nice thing about the evil black rifles is if you don't like part of it you can replace it with something you DO like. I just ordered two RRA trigger assemblies for my two Bushmasters. Much better that the triggers that can with them.

So you recogmend starting with a poorly designed unreliable POS, and than throwing tons of money at it, just to make it a marginally better POS? Kinda like putting lipstick on a pig, isn't it?

[creophus]

So you recogmend starting with a poorly designed unreliable POS, and than throwing tons of money at it, just to make it a marginally better POS? Kinda like putting lipstick on a pig, isn't it?Sounds like you spent some time with one of the original M16s in vietnam. The AR platform is a good design and I find it to be very accurate and reliable. Now I've never used mine in a combat situation, thank God, but I know many others who do. I'm not a fan of the .223 round for anything but paper punching and varmints. ARs are chambered for almost every round available.

[RugerFan58]

So you recogmend starting with a poorly designed unreliable POS, and than throwing tons of money at it, just to make it a marginally better POS? Kinda like putting lipstick on a pig, isn't it?The two trigger assemblies were $88 each and they were the only modifications I done to either gun. Always keep my AR's somewhat clean which might be why I've never had a FTF, FTE, or a hicup of any kind. I know there are brands of AR's out there that are less than perfect but my Bushmasters have been 100% reliable. That being said I would have bought two AK's if I had to do it all over again. Not because I've had any problems but because I think 7.62x39 fits my needs better than .223.

[VN350X10]

Nothing full auto, nothing supressed....Thank you, Peoples Republik of Illinois.
Just about something in every other catagory thou, multiples of many, but no GAP's !

uncle albert

[Tailgunner]

Creo
Not personaly, but I knew to many guys that were. You call any design that craps where it eats a good design? You prepare your food on the bathroom sink? You store your garbage in the fridge?
The Malfunction-16 was rejected (due to failures) in all military testing, and there was only 1 small group that showed ANY interest in it (Air Force security). It was rammed down the throat of the military by McNamara "think tank" (can you say high level bribary?). The military ONLY accepted it as a TEMPORY "fill in" rifle, until a proper design could be found.

Ruger
There are many things that seperate good from bad design in a military weapon, and the ability to operate in foul conditions is one of the big ones. There is a reason the P-08 pistol, Ross Rifle, and the M-16 fail as military weapons, and if you compare them to the 1911, the K-98, the SMLE and the AK-47 (all sucessfull combat designs) you might notice one of them (IE the ability to function reliably with a minimum of care). Now, as a "speciality" arm, being used by a specific group, those "problem" weapons can come into their own IE the Ross rifle (another fussy jammer) was highly thought of by the snipers that used it.

[creophus]

Creo
Not personaly, but I knew to many guys that were. You call any design that craps where it eats a good design? You prepare your food on the bathroom sink? You store your garbage in the fridge?
The Malfunction-16 was rejected (due to failures) in all military testing, and there was only 1 small group that showed ANY interest in it (Air Force security). It was rammed down the throat of the military by McNamara "think tank" (can you say high level bribary?). The military ONLY accepted it as a TEMPORY "fill in" rifle, until a proper design could be found.


TG, I feel where you are coming from. The reason I call it a good design is it's adaptability. It has undergone lots of improvement from the "Mattel" gun that was introduced in Vietnam. The M4s now work in adverse conditions (desert) reliably. I understand there was tons of back scratching to get that thing accepted. Now that it's here, it really does it's job. The only complaint I keep hearing is that the .223 round needs to be bigger. Perhaps if I hunted with one or used it for something other than target practice I'd respect the round more.

[VN350X10]

Too bad the military has given up on the 6.8 SPC concept.
The "270 short" will drop a whitetail very reliabily, & a human target is about the same.
Don't know WHY it was dropped, but I've seen results on WI deer & it really looked good.
Probably not enough payola involved.

uncle albert


:patriot:

[ISUSteve]

Anybody who calls an AR an unreliable design is wrong. Every guns has problems in the beginning and the M-16 was rushed into service, but they were fixed.

ARs work great now and have for awhile. Every Iraq vet that I have talked to and know said their M4/16 worked great. Give up what you read on the internet about them (like here).

[MONTEGOD7SS]

My experience with ARs is half/half. My cousin had one that ran perfect, BGGM had one that needed tossed in the ocean. He has a couple now that seem better but he did lock one up tighter'n hell a couple of weeks ago with a round loaded for his bolt gun. Give me one with M4 ramps, chrome chamber and bore, 5.56 chamber, and I think it would be a pretty reliable gun. Overall I would take an M1A and never look back if money wasn't an object.

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

Yea I Accidentally put a 223 round that was neck sized for my bolt gun into the AR. other than that, I didn't like em in the gobment days, and years after, the one that monte said need to be tossed wasn't no lie, worst Ar ever, you would have thought that bushmasters would be great, but this one was not. the ones that I have now are great, they run flawleslly except for that stupid thing a few weeks back. the ones that I have now run great and they aint going anywhere, I will keep em

[MakeMineaP99]

I was talking to Tailgunner tonight and as he said, until they don't need the hit with foot to make run button, I'll stick with M14, BAR, Garand, Carbine, or even a subgun.

I've shoot the AR platform in suppressed, full auto, semi, varmint, just about anyway you can configure it and at the end of the day, it's still a plastic gun people dump thousands in getting to run, like a 1911. Give me a Garand anyday, it plain works, just like my sidearm (G17).

[ISUSteve]

I don't get the hit with foot comment, but if I had one for my life to depend on, it would be an M14. I wish I had a M1A, but I have a Garand. Same thing. Its 10 times more fun to shoot than an AR.

I want a M1A with a 20 round enbloc clip system.

[Tailgunner]

Steve
That large round object on the right rear of the receiver is there for what reason?
That's the "Kick here, this POS is jammed again" button.
As far as having it's problems cured, it jammed in VN, and it's still jamming in OIF some 40 years later. Dosn't sound real "fixed" to me. The real problem STILL has not been cured, and that is that the clearances are to tight for a reliable combat arm, combined with it's gas system "crapping where it eats" to add more to the dirt load in the action.
Look at various successfull and non-successfull combat arms designs over the years, what seperates the great from the poor is reliability under ALL conditions. The best ones are "sloppy" and the worst ones are "tight". Mauser 1898, Springfield 1903, US 1917, British SMLE all vs the Canadian Ross rifle, German P-08 Luger vs the US 1911, AK-47 vs the M-16. All the great ones sacraficed some accuracy for absolute reliability under the worst conditions.

[VN350X10]

The tolerences on the original AR platform, AS DESIGNED by Eugene Stoner were fine.
The real reason for the jamming back in the '60's was the POWDER !!
Take Ball powder, add flash supressent & the effect is a big pile of ash & unburned residue.
This isn't the fault of the rifle, but of the Gov't. contractor that bid the ammo.
FACT : The .222 family of ctgs.(of which the .223 is one) was designed around a non-canister grade of IMR 4198 powder. This powder was DEVELOPED for this case family !
Many people were disciplined, threatened, demoted in rank & flat out kicked out of the military, losing pensions & benifits accrued from long & honorable military service, due to the boondoggle surrounding the AMMO !
Load an AR platform with the correct powder & it's reliability is equal to the M-14 or the Garand.
When the AR was being tested, the ammo used WAS loaded with the correct powder & reliability was excellent.
It was only after addoption that the military demand for ammo increased to the point that other suppliers were required, & that's when the Ball powder problems started. Ball powder has a high flash signature as one of it's charertiristics(SP!) & the addition of the calcium based flash supressent was the start of the major problems !

uncle albert:biggrinjester:

[Tailgunner]

Load an AR platform with the correct powder & it's reliability is equal to the M-14 or the Garand.
When the AR was being tested, the ammo used WAS loaded with the correct powder & reliability was excellent.

UA, you and I are both old enough to remember that it failed miserably in the standard Army tests, and it wasn't until the head honchoes (read McNamara/Whitehouse) forced the Army to re-configure the tests to allow it to pass, that it did (kind of like "dumbing down" tests to allow kids to graduate HS without being able to read write or do 'rithmatic). IOW it only passed the tests after the test was altered to allow it to pass.
And to this day it's still equipped with the kick starter, which was just the first of many "improvments", and it is still a jam-o-matic once you take it away from a clean range enviroment and expose it to real world combat conditions (read DIRT).
Drop a couple loaded mags in a mud hole (not just a quick dip is a "slightly brown" puddle) and pour some fine sand in a few more, now run them through your rifle and see how long it runs (without any cleaning) before puking. If the answer is less than a standard ammo loadout for combat troops, it's CRAP.

IIRC the 222/222Mag (parents of the 223) were designed for BOLT ACTIONS, so your whole powder theory dosn't hold water. IF the action was properly designed, the TYPE (ball, flake, stick) wouldn't matter anyway, so that's just another indicator of poor design (crapping where it eats). Of course a gas system like the AR's is cheaper to manfacture than a tappet system, and cheaper is better, right? Who cares about the guys that got/get killed as a result of such cost savings?

[creophus]

I'm not a fan of the forward assist button. If it doesn't chamber, then forcing it in might not be the best idea. I guess if I were being shot at, and needed at least one more round I'd feel differently.

[VN350X10]

Guess I'm giving away my age, huh ?

Seriously, there are reams & reams of documents on the failure of the AR because of the powder....the guys who suffered with the 1sg gen in 'Nam liked to keep a 1 pc. cleaning rod duct taped to the rifle to use as a ramrod ! (stuck brass)
And the "kick starter" on ther side is no different than the charging handle on a Garand or M-14, occasionally they also needed a "push start" (not as often).
I load my own .223 ammo for 3-Gun competition, I use IMR 4198 exclusivly for the AR, & I see a lot of shooters still using the "kick starter" shooting USPSA.....they load Ball powder, or shoot mil surplus.
Mine is so reliable that I could have gotten by all of last season with an old SP-1. (no kick starter) After 200 rds, it looks like it had fired 1 mag of milsurp !
When I run out of 4198, I'm going to find the equivilant VhitaVuori & run cleaner yet.
A large amount of $$$$$ was spent MAKING the AR un-reliable in combat, due to the ammo contracts. Too bad the SOB's involved wern't forced to lug an AR across a rice paddy, ducking, crapping their pants & un-jamming a weapon instead of shooting back.
Like a lot of the unfortunate Grunts involved !

uncle albert :patriot:

[ISUSteve]

Like Al said, the FA is no different than a charging handle on every other gun. The AR has an internal bolt that you cannot just nudge easily. On a Garand, you bump the charging handle, on a AK, you bump the charging handle, on AR, you bump the forward assist.

Every gun has the possibility of not going completely into battery - EVERY GUN. No exceptions. You don't want to be in a firefight and not be able to close the bolt on your gun. That's why the FA is there.

If you're at the range and need to use the FA, that's a different story. Don't use it at the range.

And another thing you are wrong about, you do not slam the FA, you nudge it. If it doesn't chamber, you don't hit it until it chambers or kick it. You reject the round and move on.

[Boge]

...Every gun has the possibility of not going completely into battery - EVERY GUN. No exceptions...

Even a musket? :)

[ISUSteve]

Got me.

[MakeMineaP99]

If the kick starter is the same as a charging handle, than what's the purpose of that T handle that always hits me in the nose when I'm in position trying to charge the rifle? ;)

[VN350X10]

Using 2 controls for the same job ?

Isn't the "T" handle "in gear" only in reverse ?
And the FA is "in gear" only in fwd. ?

Just goes to prove that the Guumint had to do with the final design.....

2 handles, each don't know what the other is supposed to do !

uncle albert

:animlol:

[MakeMineaP99]

:animlol:

I think this is where one of you old timers says, "Reminds me of my first marriage."

[VN350X10]

:patriot:no experience at that, BUT a great line with many possibilities !

uncle albert

[ISUSteve]

Why did they change the design from a charging handle on the top in the carrying handle to the charging handle?

[creophus]

If the kick starter is the same as a charging handle, than what's the purpose of that T handle that always hits me in the nose when I'm in position trying to charge the rifle? ;)
How do you get hit with the charging handle on an AR? It's not suppose to move unless you're pulling it back.

[ISUSteve]

I think he forgets to move his face when he's pulling it back.

[MakeMineaP99]

When you're slung up in position, prone, shooting a match.

[ISUSteve]

I only use the charging handle once per range trip.

[MakeMineaP99]

You don't have that option during a match, the course of fire dicates otherwise.

[ISUSteve]

Why do they have you close your bolt?

[MakeMineaP99]

In a JCG match, the course of fire for rapid sitting, calls for closed bolt, empty chamber, 5 in the mag, when going to from standing to sitting, rapid fire. You have 60 seconds after the line is declared hot to get into sitting position from standing, charge the rifle, sling up, shoot, hit the required reload, and finish (it's a lot of time, even if it doesn't sound like it does).

The reason this sucks: I get into position, sling up, then you my trigger hand (left) to charge the rifle, then grip the firearm and proceed to discharge. This is near impossible to accomplish with an AR due to the stupid charging handle T wings. The 3 gun shooters mill there up to accept a traditional charging handle, that's the reason for it, so you can charge the rifle in position and/or shooting on the move.

BTW, take an AR with the bolt locked back and slam it on the ground. That's why you start with a closed bolt.

[ISUSteve]

Makes sense. Thanks Dan.

[Boge]

Are you two dating?

[ISUSteve]

Nothing serious. Open relationship. You interested?

[Boge]

Nothing serious. Open relationship. You interested?

I can't. Dan's the jealous type.


:animlol:

[MakeMineaP99]

:yikes:

[BigSlick]

Oh yeah,

I don't have a pen gun, a zip gun, a flare gun or any SA revolvers

[Jayhawker]

Oh yeah,

I don't have a pen gun, a zip gun, a flare gun or any SA revolvers
Come on 'Slick, everyone needs a good SA revolver. When you come up to shoot the SR9, I'll let you borrow one of mine for a while.

[Dark Horse]

JH is right, ya gotta have atleast one SA

[chewy]

Can't go wrong with a 45 Colt. Big fat 45 255 grain rock cruzin' at 1000 fps cure many in issue.
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k298/chewybaca67/Fire%20Arms/P6170010.jpg

[creophus]

BTW, take an AR with the bolt locked back and slam it on the ground. That's why you start with a closed bolt.Never tried that. That would certainly have me a bit worried.

It also appears that there's a lot more types of guns that I don't have, that I didn't even realize until now.

[Desertrat]

don't have a muzzle loader, an "assault type" rifle, or a derringer.