Limited/Open Cutoffs

[Steve Koski]

I'm putting together a post Christmas steel match, and I want the divisions to be roughly.

1) Limited or Open
2) Major, Minor, or Sub Minor (22 LR)

The definition of major, minor, and sub-minor I have down. What I need a little help clarifying is the difference between limited and open, to correspond basically with USPSA rules.

Limited:
A. No optics, no compensators
B. No mags longer than XXXmm

Open:
Anything that doesn't follow the Limited rules.



What is the allowable mag length? XXXmm
What other significant limited/open differences would you put on a "short list?"

Thanks,

Koski

[MakeMineaP99]

140 mm isn't it?

[ede]

140mm, can't remember what that works out to in inches. if you down load the USPSA rule book they show you how to measure mags for compliance to the rule. if you're following USPSA in limited you'd need .40 or larger to make major 9mm in open to make major. if a wheelie shooter shows up you can make major with a .357 or larger.

[jimruger9]

Just look at Frenchies gun.


Thought this was my match. Thanks again for doing the work. What do the stages look like?

[Steve Koski]

Half of them look just like Steel Challenge stages. The other half are concoctions from my twisted mind. All stages (except one) are multiple strings (like 4 or 5) at the same array of 5 targets - ala steel challenge.

I'm going to the range Sunday to get a target and stand inventory. You wanna come?

[Jerry Snyder]

Maximum length for an Open class Magazine is 170mm.

Glock 30+ round mags are to long.

Thumb rest on an open gun is OK, not in Limited.

Slide racker is OK on both.

No ports in the barrel on a limited gun.

JS

[Steve Koski]

Thanks Snyder. That was helpful.

Koski

[jimruger9]

Going to Moab, wanna go?

[Steve Koski]

Yes I wanna go. You won't let me!

Damn the man.

[Flexmoney]

Major/Minor is meaningless for Steel Challenge...since the steel doesn't fall. (5 runs per shooter, then repaint the targets between shooters...get atleast 12 cans of white paint from WallyWorld @ $0.98/per)

Technically...there used to be a 120pf floor, fwiw.


Capacity doesn't matter either. As there are only 5 targets. A hicap is no advantage (you can reload between each string, before you holser up)


At my match we ran:

OPEN - any electronic sight or comp/port
STOCK - any other centerfire

RIMFIRE .22 OPEN (no holster...low ready...finger outside trigger guard)
RIMFIRE STOCK

and recently ...Pistol CaliBer Carbine

http://www.pcsirange.com/html/Division-plates.html
Here is some basic info from the match I ran in Circleville, OHIO


Feel free to hit me up with questions :cornut:

[Flexmoney]

Oh...a couple of red cans of paint will let you mark (the bottom of post) stop plate.


And, I'd skip the stages with multiple boxes and movement. That will simplify things and make it easy to understand (plus, safer with new shooters)

[Steve Koski]

Flex,

Major/Minor means the same thing it does at IPSC matches. Major has more recoil. Right?

Thanks for the link. Good info!

Koski

[Flexmoney]

Major/Minor means the same thing it does at IPSC matches.

It means nothing at IPSC matches with regards to steel. Major/Minor only scores differently on paper...for non-Alpha hits. It doesn't seperate the divisions, either.



It makes no scoring difference, and is not recognized in Steel Challenge.

And, effectively...it makes no shooting/performance difference...as only one shot is required per target. (ride the recoil to the next target)

[Steve Koski]

Hmmmmmm.

[Flexmoney]

Tom Freeman is going to run a Steel Challenge match at Pike's Peak. Timely enough for me to post the divisions he is choosing:

2009 Rocky Mountain Steel Challenge

Divisions

OPEN. Optics and porting allowed.

LIMITED. Iron sights only, no porting.

OPEN REVO. Revolver with optics and/or porting.

REVO. Iron sighted revolver. 6, 7 or 8 shot revo allowed.

IDPA. Any pistol, mags, ammo, and holster legal for IDPA. Cover garment *is* required while shooting.

COWBOY. Any legal SASS pistol. Funny clothes *not* required, but encouraged.

RIMFIRE PISTOL. Any rimfire pistol. Optics and porting allowed. No holster required. Start low ready.

RIMFIRE RIFLE. Any rimfire rifle. Optics and porting allowed. Start low ready.

PISTOL CALIBER CARBINE. Any pistol caliber carbine. Optics and porting allowed.

Cash payback in divisions with 10 or more shooters.

Competing in multiple divisions is allowed. No more than two different guns allowed in one day.

Only your fastest centerfire division counts for placement, plaques and cash payback.

Only your fastest rimfire division counts for placement, plaques and cash payback.

Your last shot fired stops the timer, even if you have already hit the stop plate.

[Flexmoney]

I'd likely do a few things differently (than above)...depending on circumstances.

For the local match that I ran (linked to earlier), I did separate Stock and Open Revolver out. Really though...they aren't at capacity disadvantage...and they fit into Stock (limited) and Open just fine. I busted them out because...for a couple of years...I was winning Stock by 20 seconds each match and Steve Anderson was winning Open by about the same. We had a couple of seniors that shot against each other for bragging rights, and it seemed good to let them beat on each other with their revolvers.

The trend at the big Steel Challenge match in Cali is to include many divisions...because they can get sponsors to support the distinctions.

Holsters DO make a difference. A Production/IDPA rig versus a race rig will likely give up a tenth of a second on the draw. That adds up. It's 2 - 2.5 seconds in a 5 stage match. That is a lot. So, I can see the logic in a division that only allows holsters that are IDPA and/or USPSA Production legal. (But, I'd lose the cover garment...to gain the USPSA shooters.)