M14 Loads

[RenoF250]

How do you tell if a load is safe for the gas system of the M14? I loaded up some 145 Grain BTFMJs with 45.5, 46, and 46,6 grains of AA 2520 in LC brass with CCI #34 primers. Would it be obvious if they were too much for the gun? I tried them in the 700 first no signs of over pressure, they shoot nice etc.

[io_joe]

Here's a place to start: http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rifle/NRAcartridges/7_62%20%2051%20Match%20page%20378.pdf

Also check out: http://www.accuratepowder.com/loaddata_caliber_rifle_standard_308cal.htm

These loads use a non magnum primer, so I would back off a bit to be sure. I'd probably start out in the 40.5 to 41 range and work up from there in 5 to 10 round increments.

BTW, your 46.6 loads should be hot. Accurate lists 46.5 as the top end for commercial brass and standard primers.

[RenoF250]

I got my load data from the Accurate Ballistician. The max on his list was 48 I believe but I am using military brass so I cut back. They do not feel hot out of the 700 at all, easy extraction, non flat primers etc.

[RenoF250]

I just checked it, 49 grains of 2520 with a 143 grain bullet. I told him I was shooting from a M14. I am mainly curious is there is some way to tell if it is too much power for the gas system. Would I hear a smack noise or something?

[MakeMineaP99]

No, you will bend your op rod with out of spec pressure,it will be apparent after the fact, which isn't a cheap mistake. Although, if you have an M14, I guess a few hundred is nothing.

[Glooooock]

Page 11


http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf


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[RenoF250]

Page 11


http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf


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I read page 11, seems that he is saying as long as the powder is fast enough you won't hurt the gas system. 4064 is 75 on Hodgdon's chart, 2520 is 78 and Varget is 81. He says no faster than 4064 but since 2520 is specifically made for M1A/M14 and I know there are many that run Varget without a problem I think it should be okay.

[Glooooock]

I read page 11, seems that he is saying as long as the powder is fast enough you won't hurt the gas system. 4064 is 75 on Hodgdon's chart, 2520 is 78 and Varget is 81. He says no faster than 4064 but since 2520 is specifically made for M1A/M14 and I know there are many that run Varget without a problem I think it should be okay.

Unlike a FAL with an adjustable gas port , to vary the bleed on the gas cylinder . A stock M1a / M14 gets only vanilla loads , its not the burn rate as much as the pressure curve .

The whole Idea with a 7.62 round in gas gun is to run the shortest case most efficient powder charge . A "slower " sub 2500- 2700 fps depending on the bullet 147 -155 gr for minimal fouling after 100s of rounds .

As long as you don't Hot rod the load , other powders work . Its when you push it. My hornady book has 2520 at 41.0 for 168gr , 155gr at 42.2 both max loads for those match bullets .

Look at 7.62 X51 mm NATO loads / military brass , these can be much lower than .308 loads

My light NM barreled M1a will hold sub .75 MOA off the bench . I hear good things about N-135 / N-140

[MONTEGOD7SS]

No, you will bend your op rod with out of spec pressure,it will be apparent after the fact, which isn't a cheap mistake. Although, if you have an M14, I guess a few hundred is nothing.

No biggie, he stole it off BGGB for a song. :)

[MakeMineaP99]

If he has any other MGs with paperwork he wants to sell for a song, I'm listening.

[RenoF250]

If he has any other MGs with paperwork he wants to sell for a song, I'm listening.

Don't worry it is a PolyTech, no full auto.

[MakeMineaP99]

When you said M14, I thought you meant rock and roll.

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Hong Kong Fui M14, not Americana. It is a really nice one though, shot it quite a bit before it went off to F250.

[BigSlick]

Some folks love Polytechs some folks turn their nose up at em.

I say if it shoots, it's good ta go ;)

See em every once in a while at a show, price seems right, decent lookin from da outside. Never put a head space gauge to one, but if it shoots, how can ya go wrong

[MONTEGOD7SS]

It kinda like my feelings on ARs, here it go. If I want something target shooting accurate, it ain't gonna be an AR, so I want an AR to function 100% reliable. This is why in an AR I want a 5.56 chamber, chrome chamber and bore, and will give up 1/2 MOA in exchange for it going bang every time I pull the trigger. I see the Polytech the same way cuz a M14 ain't what I want for target shooting, so if it functions reliably that is good enough for me. That is just how I look at things cuz I'm not a target shooter but if I was it would be with a bolt gun instead of trying to make a semi-auto into something it ain't. Target guns have tight chambers and tight chambers jam, and that ain't OK with me.

[BigSlick]

+100

I got da same feelin about high end 1911's.

I a take a bone stock Combat Commander over a $4k 'carry package' from some gunsmith with a self induced pedigree

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Just like I always say, get a 1911 that rattles and it'll be a reliable one.

[creophus]

When you said M14, I thought you meant rock and roll. Ha ha! Dan you hear what you want to hear my friend! :) There was a funny conversation I had with a friend last night. My wife and I were talking and somehow he heard a girl's name (mutual friend of ours). Funny thing is, there was nothing in what we said that was even remotely close to her name. He heard what he wanted to hear!

It kinda like my feelings on ARs, here it go. If I want something target shooting accurate, it ain't gonna be an AR, so I want an AR to function 100% reliable. This is why in an AR I want a 5.56 chamber, chrome chamber and bore, and will give up 1/2 MOA in exchange for it going bang every time I pull the trigger. I see the Polytech the same way cuz a M14 ain't what I want for target shooting, so if it functions reliably that is good enough for me. That is just how I look at things cuz I'm not a target shooter but if I was it would be with a bolt gun instead of trying to make a semi-auto into something it ain't. Target guns have tight chambers and tight chambers jam, and that ain't OK with me.
I think an AR is kinda like a Glock. It can be reliable and reasonably accurate. People get into trouble when the want a reliable accurate gun that they can neglect and abuse. It don't work that way.

[RenoF250]

Just like I always say, get a 1911 that rattles and it'll be a reliable one.

It doesn't have to rattle to be reliable though. My Kimber never jams, it eats that ammo BGGB said was jamming your Sig all day.

[MONTEGOD7SS]

The same ammo that was jamming up his 1911 yesterday? Oh yeah, I remember that stuff, wasn't even close to being seated right. You have the privilege of producing the only ammo to ever in FTF in my Sig in the past 10yrs, good on ya.

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

hahahhahahahahaha, thats good !!!!!. what he dosent tell you bout that Kimber is that it has had some work done to it . I will admit his feeds really well.

Sorry Dan, it was a Polytech M14 that I scored off of cabelas at a hell of a steal, when they first opend. actually it's a more souht after one. in perfect shape. damn accurate too. But I have a love affair wth FAL's and thats what I like. I still get to see it and shoot it; since its still in the family.

[Washington,D.C.]

I load a lot for my M-14's. I found Varget really slams the action and has to be reduced well down from bolt action loads and military and mil-spec primers even more so. I tried AA-2520. It's a really fine ball powder that measures easily. It was gentle on the gas system and action but didn't give me the velocities I wanted. I didn't try loads as hotter than yours. The new Hornady load guide has some loads for the M-14 which are a bit on the mild side but not too mild. They used commercial cases and Winchester primers. The Winchester primers can make some loads of certain powders really hot.

Here are some notes I took from a some pressure tests.

Started with max load in military case with mil spec primer.

Commercial with same load and primer reduced pressure 7,500 PSI, velocity reduced 45 FPS.

Standard force primer same load and military case reduced pressure 6,700 PSI, reduced velocity 55 PSI.

Note that the case change lost more pressure but the primer change lost more velocity. The combo change of case and primer was not tested.

[RenoF250]

The same ammo that was jamming up his 1911 yesterday? Oh yeah, I remember that stuff, wasn't even close to being seated right. You have the privilege of producing the only ammo to ever in FTF in my Sig in the past 10yrs, good on ya.

You are smoking something, they are fully in spec for .45. My Glock shoots them fine as well.

The only "work" that has been done to my Kimber is the throat has been reamed. That took out about 2 grains of steel.

[RenoF250]

I load a lot for my M-14's. I found Varget really slams the action and has to be reduced well down from bolt action loads and military and mil-spec primers even more so. I tried AA-2520. It's a really fine ball powder that measures easily. It was gentle on the gas system and action but didn't give me the velocities I wanted. I didn't try loads as hotter than yours. The new Hornady load guide has some loads for the M-14 which are a bit on the mild side but not too mild. They used commercial cases and Winchester primers. The Winchester primers can make some loads of certain powders really hot.

Here are some notes I took from a some pressure tests.

Started with max load in military case with mil spec primer.

Commercial with same load and primer reduced pressure 7,500 PSI, velocity reduced 45 FPS.

Standard force primer same load and military case reduced pressure 6,700 PSI, reduced velocity 55 PSI.

Note that the case change lost more pressure but the primer change lost more velocity. The combo change of case and primer was not tested.

Interesting, so you are saying there is a noticeable slam for rounds that are hard on the gas system? Do you think my loads are probably okay?

The main reason that I am wondering is they all felt about the same in the 700 but in the M14 the 46 and 46.6 grain loads seemed to have a fair amount more recoil.

[Washington,D.C.]

Those loads sound fairly hot. If the recoil is more than factory or military ammo then it's most likely too hot.Since you are using 150 grain bullets then the high recoil is the bolt hitting the receiver. Some of the 168 and 175 grain loads have a bit more recoil due to bullet weight but a 150 grain bullet shouldn't have more recoil than military ammo.

[MONTEGOD7SS]

You are smoking something, they are fully in spec for .45. My Glock shoots them fine as well.

The only "work" that has been done to my Kimber is the throat has been reamed. That took out about 2 grains of steel.

MOST of them are in spec. It is the ones that are clearly sticking out further that are the problem. My P220 will gobble up anything I have ever fed it, but some of the ones just won't feed. Maybe it was from when you were first getting the dies setup, or the LnL just isn't consistent on OAL, I dunno. You are as easy to get riled up as Shane, this is fun.

[MakeMineaP99]

Well, I load H&G 68, TC, RNL, FMJ in .45 and run them through a pair of SIGs, no problems to report.

LNL with Redding dies.

[RenoF250]

Well, I load H&G 68, TC, RNL, FMJ in .45 and run them through a pair of SIGs, no problems to report.

LNL with Redding dies.

I think the problem comes from Monte's limp wrist. :rofl::thumbsup::10:

[MakeMineaP99]

Ah, yeah, he never did understand his physics too well. :supergrin:

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

hahahahhaaha, honestly, they work fine, just every once in a while i have to bump the slide to let it go into battery, I think that some barrels have a shorter throat than others. ohhh we'll now I use 200 LSWC and 230 FMJ. dont let montegod get ya, He thinks that his SIG's chit dont stink.

hahahahhahaha

:77::9:

[MakeMineaP99]

Took me a bit to get my SIG run certain loads, loading is different than other guns, mostly 1911s.

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Ya, every so often you just have to slam an incorrectly loaded one home, no biggie. Kinda like a forward assist on an AR, it lets you get those rounds chambered that were made by a ham hand. Glad to hear your Kimber is doing good since you had em hog out the chamber.

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is getting funny.

[MONTEGOD7SS]

:)