Need lotsa lead

[yammerschooner]

Today I realized that I simply can't find enough good lead and may need to resort to other methods.

Here is what my wife found after witnessed my distress at the rapidly shrinking pile of ingots.

http://www.maycoindustries.com/lead_casting.htm (http://www.maycoindustries.com/lead_casting.htm)

http://www.americanelements.com/pbmi.html (http://www.americanelements.com/pbmi.html)

Any of you have an in with either of these places?

Any of you have an in with a similar type establishment?

This would be my kind of group buy.

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Commercial casters have to have a similar supply because there's no way they can rely on scrap lead and WWs. I didn't see a price mentioned, did you find one?

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

Arm And A Leg

[cohutt]

talk to wiljen on cast boolits- he has worked with commercial smelters before. He put together a group buy for some high antimony/tin alloy that i participated in. He's in TN. I'll also ask a friend who deals with some in Birmingham and get a name or two for you if i can.

wiljen indicated his would work with as little as 1 ton purchased i think.

related threads found:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=17004
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=16971&highlight=metal

[Flexmoney]

I found another such place in TN a while back. I didn't mark it. The Doe Run company is out of St. Loius and they are a big time lead supplier (large mine in SE MO)...they might be worth a call.

Let me know what you come up with. I have a line on the Ballisticast machines like you have. The money is right on the machines, but doing the math...I'm afraid to jump in without a steady supply of LOTS of lead.

I'm afraid I couldn't keep myself in enough lead just to take care of the local guys I shoot with.

[AdamN]

Flex if you get a Ballisticast machine I may be able to give you a hand. Ive got a ton or two on hand right now. Once I got a good ammount saved up I quit scrounging around so much. With a little motivation I could probably get a bit more:sifone:

[freakshow10mm]

I'm trying to find a foundry too. Harder than it looks. Most told me their minimum order is 30K lbs.

Supposed to be a distributor in lower MI from AIM, but the guy never called and I don't have his contact info.

Checked with the foundry at MI Tech Univ and they don't handle lead and have no interest in doing so.

[freakshow10mm]

http://metals.about.com/od/lead/Lead_Suppliers_Guide.htm

[freakshow10mm]

Checked with a few places. Will report back when I get info. I also contacted Ney metals, that supplies MidwayUSA.

[freakshow10mm]

Did some checking on YellowPages.com for Iowa

http://www.yellowpages.com/IA/Metals?search_mode=all&search_terms=Lead

[Flexmoney]

Flex if you get a Ballisticast machine I may be able to give you a hand. Ive got a ton or two on hand right now. Once I got a good ammount saved up I quit scrounging around so much. With a little motivation I could probably get a bit more:sifone:

That is where I am at....the motivation part. I'd probably need to do 10-20 k a month of bullets to make it worth it. In doing so, a steady quality and supply would be expected. I know guys would be begging bullets off me at every match on every weekend. It wouldn't go over too well if they weren't consistent.

How is your source ?

My fear is not being able to get enough lead. If I did it as a business, I feel I could sell all I could get my hands on if I went mail order.

I'd likely have my hands full with 9mm, 40 and 45. (max velocity needed, probably about 950fps...so, they wouldn't have to be hard-hard)


Just thinking out loud... (don't mean to steal yammer's thread)

[freakshow10mm]

PriceThe more your machine costs the more your overhead and the less you make. I hand cast all of my bullets and think I charge a fair price.

From what I'm experiencing, 45 is a hell of a lot more popular than 40. Offer a 200gr SWC and you'll sell a lot. Trust me.

ETA: Most prices I was quoted a few months back was $3-4/lb plus shipping.

[yammerschooner]

talk to wiljen on cast boolits- he has worked with commercial smelters before. He put together a group buy for some high antimony/tin alloy that i participated in. He's in TN. I'll also ask a friend who deals with some in Birmingham and get a name or two for you if i can.

wiljen indicated his would work with as little as 1 ton purchased i think.

related threads found:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=17004
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=16971&highlight=metal
Thanks. I will hit him up for info later this week.

[yammerschooner]

Wow freak, you have really been hitting the pavement on this one. I didn't realize how little I had before the pile started shrinking.

As it gets closer to summer I should get this narrowed down more and more. I will let you all know where I end up.

[freakshow10mm]

There is also a place in TX I ran across.Douglas Lead Supply out of Dallas. 214-637-0843

[AdamN]

That is where I am at....the motivation part. I'd probably need to do 10-20 k a month of bullets to make it worth it. In doing so, a steady quality and supply would be expected. I know guys would be begging bullets off me at every match on every weekend. It wouldn't go over too well if they weren't consistent.

How is your source ?

My fear is not being able to get enough lead. If I did it as a business, I feel I could sell all I could get my hands on if I went mail order.

I'd likely have my hands full with 9mm, 40 and 45. (max velocity needed, probably about 950fps...so, they wouldn't have to be hard-hard)


Just thinking out loud... (don't mean to steal yammer's thread)


Well I think any info layed out here can be of use to all interested.

If youre really into a "commercial" venture your best bet would be a foundry. You can get a known alloy and a year from now or whenever you can get the identical mix, that will equal happy customers.

Me; I can go out and hustle up whatever, Wheel weights, pure lead or whatever is available and then have the task of smelting, mixing to get some kind of mix that will work in a gun.

If I hit it hard for a couple days I may be able to scrounge up 10 tons if I wanted it bad enough. Prices are up and down right now so depending on what the foundry charges it may or may not be a bargain.

That is the position Im in now but I just have to worry about keeping myself and a couple of friends happy.

I dont have any one "source" so to speak but have several places that I can get larger quanaties at times.

Its good enough for what I do at the moment but I dont know how fast a few high volume shooters could cause it to dry up.

[AdamN]

Just got off the phone with Avril which is a lead/alloy company in Cincinnati. He couldnt give he a definitive price but his rough estimate for a 92/6/2 alloy would be close to $3.00 a pound. That is based on their price of $2.09 for pure lead, $6.00 for antimony and $10.00 for tin.

[AdamN]

If my math is right for a 180 gr bullet youre looking at $38.00 per k just in purchasing the alloy. Figure youre time, buying the bullet machine, lube etc its easy to see where $70.00 per K cast bullet prices come from.

[yammerschooner]

If my math is right for a 180 gr bullet youre looking at $38.00 per k just in purchasing the alloy. Figure youre time, buying the bullet machine, lube etc its easy to see where $70.00 per K cast bullet prices come from.


That right there adds a lot of perspective.

[MakeMineA10mm]

You guys in IA and MI are gonna lose your ass on shipping lead from Texas, Alabama, or other far-away places. I bought lead from a foundry in Chicago one time. It was the standard 92-2-6, and it cost about $.45/lb, and we had to buy it in at least 1-ton lots, and then find a way to get it home. (We split it into two pick-up truck loads - which with gasoline prices these days would be quite expensive.) That was back in the early 90s. I imagine it will be over twice that expensive now, and that alloy is way too hard for good cast boolits.

[cohutt]

"Tank yoo, com agane"

http://www.gravitaindia.com/export.html

[AdamN]

Well I recieved a more official qute via e-mail this morning from the Avril company. Certainly a LOT better than the initial estimates.

""Hello Adam:

It was nice to talk with you over the phone yesterday. Thank you for the
interest and the opportunity.

I talked with Phil Schneider our GM and he said if you are willing to buy in
4000 pound quantity's our price today would be in the $1.50 to $1.60/lb
range for the 92Pb/6Sb/2Sn alloy in ingot form.

As we talked on the phone, your account would be cash in advance and this
price would be for your pick up and/or your freight collect. 2 weeks lead
time.

Thanks again,

Doug Nelson
The G. A. Avril Company
Cincinnati, Ohio
513-731-5133
513-731-5135 (fax)
800-331-9173 """


So there it is fellas, if youre serious and can swing the cash to buy 2 tons its a $1.60 a pound for "virgin" "certified" alloy.

[freakshow10mm]

Is that shipped?

[MakeMineaP99]

Is that shipped?

No:

"As we talked on the phone, your account would be cash in advance and this price would be for your pick up and/or your freight collect. 2 weeks lead time."

[freakshow10mm]

:thumbsup:

[AdamN]

Is that shipped?


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no:sifone:

[sparky241]

try ebay alot of the time you will get raped with the price but sometimes you get a good deal like i just got 55lbs of lead for $56.00 thats just over a dollar per pound

[yammerschooner]

Freak, it is my understanding that you will end up paying about $1 per mile for a 3rd party to deliver it. Maybe one of the transportation gurus around here will confirm.

[yammerschooner]

So there it is fellas, if youre serious and can swing the cash to buy 2 tons its a $1.60 a pound for "virgin" "certified" alloy.


Thanks Adam.

$6400 is much more serious than I am right now, especially with Cincinnatti being 590 miles down the road and having a regular job that keeps me fairly happy. Maybe someday these wheel weights I already have will provide me with a little more seriousness.

I still need a whole lotsa lead, and need to research over on castboolits just for the peace of mind.:biggrinjester:


ETA: I should have initially labelled this thread as a pipe dream. I never figured you all would do as much looking as you did. I hope it wasn't too much of a PITA.

[AdamN]

No problem at all Yammer; Just satisfying my own curiosity as well. I talked to him yesterday about a rough estimate. He e-mailed this morning with a more definite price. Considering the way lead prices are I was really suprised it was that low. Nothing like paying .10 or .20 a pound for scrap but at least youi know whats available and a good idea of the price.

Ive had several folks ask me about selling lead and I honestly wouldnt take less than a dollar a pound for what I have. I would just end up hunting more up/smelting it etc and I think by the time you add all that its woth that much to me.
Plus I would really rather not sell it

[yammerschooner]

Plus I would really rather not sell it

I know how that one goes, and agree that selling hard scrounged lead at $1 a lb is more trouble than it is worth. The good pile of ingots is a fascinating thing, because you never have to worry about ever running out of bullets.

I think I just found my new sig line.

[jawjaboy]

scrounged lead at $1 a lb

:yikes: I've been robbed!












:sifone:

.

[yammerschooner]

apparently so :cornut:

[jawjaboy]

apparently so :cornut:

Dammit. Foiled again.

[freakshow10mm]

I'm in the same boat. My current supply is getting low and I hate to buy off eBay from some jackass that doesn't know how to properly package 60lbs of lead in a FRB.

Trouble is finding a company close enough that is willing to handle a few hundred pounds per month. In a larger city it would be easier. Up in the very north of the UP, it's much harder and shipping is outrageous.

[yammerschooner]

Dammit. Foiled again.


and they seemed so friendly too...

[MakeMineaP99]

I'm in the same boat. My current supply is getting low and I hate to buy off eBay from some jackass that doesn't know how to properly package 60lbs of lead in a FRB.

Trouble is finding a company close enough that is willing to handle a few hundred pounds per month. In a larger city it would be easier. Up in the very north of the UP, it's much harder and shipping is outrageous.

Feel like making a trip down to SE MI? I know a guy in the scrap business, I'll see what I can do.

[jawjaboy]

and they seemed so friendly too...

:prrr: :prrr:

.

[yammerschooner]

:prrr: :prrr:

.


I'm tellin' my mom!

[jawjaboy]

:rofl:Mrs. A will unnerstand! Prolly. We bud's ya know. ;)

[Flexmoney]

So there it is fellas, if youre serious and can swing the cash to buy 2 tons its a $1.60 a pound for "virgin" "certified" alloy.

Thanks Adam. Lots of food for thought.

[cohutt]

[quote=yammerschooner;6622]The good pile of ingots is a fascinating thing, because you never have to worry about ever running out of bullets.[quote]

Mmmmmm......

"Lead, the other white meat"

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining%202/misc020.jpg

[MakeMineA10mm]

Since I love youse guys so much, I went to diggin in the closet behind the shelving downstairs and put up with mold, dust, and mildew to go through my old box of commercial casting references.

The company I got the one load of magnum bullet alloy from was AMES METAL CO. 4323 S. Western Blvd., Chicago, IL. 60609. (773)523-3230. They are a foundry and do all sorts of metals, but it looks like they are starting to specialize in Aluminum... Still listed is lead-tin alloys though.

I then looked them up through MacRAE's Blue Book, and found a whole page of companies that allegedly make lead-tin alloys, including some in MI., and 2 more in Illinois (sorry Yammer, that's as close as I could find to you in IA.) Here's the link: http://www.macraesbluebook.com/search/product_company_list.cfm?prod_code=153600
Also, check the links at the top of this page, as you can also search MacRAE's by "TIN Alloys," "LEAD Alloys," TIN pigs, ingots, and bars," etc... Lots of interesting choices there!

[MakeMineA10mm]

Yammer - I found one!

Johnson Manufacturing Co.
114 Lost Grove Rd., Box 96
Princeton, IA , 52768

Phone: 563-289-5123
FAX: 563-289-3825
Toll Free Phone: 800-747-0030

Website:www.johnsonmfg.com (http://www.johnsonmfg.com)

They don't list bullet alloy or even lead, but they list everything else a caster needs, including Tin, flux, and "lead silver solder" (which I find is usually Tin-Antimony mix - lead-free). But, it wouldn't hurt to call them, and see what they can do.

Another idea is to call Ames and some other big foundries (who probably supply Johnson), and see if they can throw your order of bullet metal on the truck that's coming to Johnson's in order to cut your shipping costs down. (They do stuff like that, but you gotta find the supplier, order in big enough quantities to make it attractive, and then hound them just enough until they say yes - BUT NO MORE or you'll get this: :incazzato:).

[yammerschooner]

Thanks MM10MM. Omaha is only 2 1/2 hours from here. I think I will ping Magnolia as well as Johnson.

I used up the rest of my ingots yesterday.

[jawjaboy]

How does da Georgia lead smelt/cast/shoot Yammer?

[yammerschooner]

The 100 lbs that made it to Iowa casts great. I have been consistently getting .086 hardness readings on my Cabine Tree tester, which is actually part of what brought up the graph that I posted last night. It is currently sitting with some Iowa lead in 415 grain ingots in one of three half full 5 gallon buckets waiting to be lubed. 70 or so ingots are lubed, and just need to be loaded.

The other 700 lbs is still in "Neat" 10 lb ingots waiting to hitch a ride up from Little Rock.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Hey Yammer! Did you ever find a supplier??? Enquiring minds want to know.....

:driving:

:gun2:

:ow:

:hereyago:

:slick::57:

Damn, Slick's got some mighty fine smilies on here, don't he??? :yesnod:

[yammerschooner]

Spent the summer building the shop and never got to it. Just got 90% of my scrap melted down two weeks ago. With school in session, I am in remission again until summer.

[N109R]

Well I recieved a more official qute via e-mail this morning from the Avril company. Certainly a LOT better than the initial estimates.

""Hello Adam:

It was nice to talk with you over the phone yesterday. Thank you for the
interest and the opportunity.

I talked with Phil Schneider our GM and he said if you are willing to buy in
4000 pound quantity's our price today would be in the $1.50 to $1.60/lb
range for the 92Pb/6Sb/2Sn alloy in ingot form.

As we talked on the phone, your account would be cash in advance and this
price would be for your pick up and/or your freight collect. 2 weeks lead
time.

Thanks again,

Doug Nelson
The G. A. Avril Company
Cincinnati, Ohio
513-731-5133
513-731-5135 (fax)
800-331-9173 """


So there it is fellas, if youre serious and can swing the cash to buy 2 tons its a $1.60 a pound for "virgin" "certified" alloy.

I am buying 90pb 8sb 2sn for $1.50 a pound and only have to buy 1 ton at a time. We are feeding a Magma bullet master mark 7.

[AdamN]

I am buying 90pb 8sb 2sn for $1.50 a pound and only have to buy 1 ton at a time. We are feeding a Magma bullet master mark 7.

Where from N109R, and welcome to the forum.........:yesnod: