Woohoo! Unbelievable.

[craig110]

I now own a T/C Arms .50 cal blackpowder rifle! Even more unbelievable to those of you that know that, ahem, domestic tranquility makes buying additional guns somewhat problematic, my wife insisted on its purchase today and she has no objection to me eventually getting more barrels for it so I can start playing with lots of calibers! Either the Earth has stopped spinning or else I'm going to wake up in a few minutes realizing that this was a very vivid dream. If this isn't a dream, it means that the door has been opened to not only smoke-pole fun, but .270, .308, .45-70, .375H&H, and maybe even .416 Rigby in my future.

Please don't wake me up - I like this dream. :)

[JLarsson]

Encore? Welcome to the brotherhood, Craig. New barrels are a lot easier on the wallet than entire new guns. I haven't gone over .375 H&H in mine yet. For the big thumpers, or even something like 7mm Mag, I recommend a Sims Limbsaver recoil pad. If you got the Pro-Hunter version, you've already got that, though.

Too exciting! :thumbsup:

[yammerschooner]

:ttiwwop:

[craig110]

Encore? Welcome to the brotherhood, Craig. New barrels are a lot easier on the wallet than entire new guns. I haven't gone over .375 H&H in mine yet. For the big thumpers, or even something like 7mm Mag, I recommend a Sims Limbsaver recoil pad. If you got the Pro-Hunter version, you've already got that, though.

Too exciting! :thumbsup:

Yup, got the Pro Hunter with the full-blown recoil absorbing stock. Not only are the barrels cheaper than entire new guns, but buying a barrel is also easier for me since my wife understands that it isn't another gun, just another caliber.

[craig110]

:ttiwwop:

Sorry, I can't pick it up until tomorrow. After we're back, though, an appropriate gun-n-foot pic will be posted!

[Steve Koski]

It's not just a gun, it's an adventure!

[yammerschooner]

Yup, got the Pro Hunter with the full-blown recoil absorbing stock. Not only are the barrels cheaper than entire new guns, but buying a barrel is also easier for me since my wife understands that it isn't another gun, just another caliber.


I need to go that route. Maybe then my wife wouldn't give me the look everytime I showed up with a new mold or set of dies that I didn't have a firearm for.

[craig110]

Yup, got the Pro Hunter with the full-blown recoil absorbing stock. Not only are the barrels cheaper than entire new guns, but buying a barrel is also easier for me since my wife understands that it isn't another gun, just another caliber.

Actually, let me correct this. What I got was the new Endeavor model which is the upgraded Pro Hunter blackpowder rifle with the Speed Breech and full energy absorbing stock. It takes the Pro Hunter barrels, though, for centerfire use.

[jimruger9]

It could just be a flash in the pan stage in life. Stick to the black evil stuff.

Any gun is a good gun congrats.

[jimruger9]

I picked up for the kids today a Remington 572 Fieldmaster .22 with 4x scope. Going to take the kids tomorrow to waste all the free ammo the guy who sold me the gun gave to me.

[JLarsson]

Actually, let me correct this. What I got was the new Endeavor model which is the upgraded Pro Hunter blackpowder rifle with the Speed Breech and full energy absorbing stock. It takes the Pro Hunter barrels, though, for centerfire use.

You probably already know, but for the benefit of anyone who might not, your Endeavor (as well as the original Encore and the Pro-Hunter Encore) will accept any Encore barrel ever made. So you're not limited to the Pro-Hunter barrels.

[craig110]

You probably already know, but for the benefit of anyone who might not, your Endeavor (as well as the original Encore and the Pro-Hunter Encore) will accept any Encore barrel ever made. So you're not limited to the Pro-Hunter barrels.

Absolutely true. I've focused on the PH barrels, though, as I like the longer target barrels. You're right, though, I shouldn't have constrained my comment to the PH barrels.

[JLarsson]

No criticism intended. :D

There are some aftermarket barrels being made by Bergara. I have not used, handled, or even seen one in person, but I understand they are quality barrels. They would equate to the standard Encore barrel, without the flutes or 28" length of the Pro-Hunter barrels.

[craig110]

No criticism intended. :D

There are some aftermarket barrels being made by Bergara. I have not used, handled, or even seen one in person, but I understand they are quality barrels. They would equate to the standard Encore barrel, without the flutes or 28" length of the Pro-Hunter barrels.

I've looked into the Bergara barrels and that was why I bought the Encore in blackpowder. That way, I have a very nice blackpowder gun and won't feel the need to replace the stock barrel with a Bergara later on for long-distance target shooting. The store had a very sweet Pro Hunter .308 rifle, but I had to look away and stay on plan.

[Boge]

It ain't a real BP gun unless you shoot REAL blackpowder in it. :)

[craig110]

It ain't a real BP gun unless you shoot REAL blackpowder in it. :)

Ah, I will be shooting real BP with that .50 cal barrel. :confused::confused:

[craig110]

It ain't a real BP gun unless you shoot REAL blackpowder in it. :)

My apologies, Boge, but now that I've read about all the different powder options for muzzleloaders, I see what you mean. I had thought even the pellets were BP. (I'm going to initially start with pellets to learn one thing at a time, but then will be getting into powder propellents shortly.)

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Since it is a BP rifle does it have to go to a FFL? I have wondered that since most black powder rifles don't because they aren't "firearms", but maybe being able to put a center fire barrel on them changes things.

[BigSlick]

Craig,

You on a slippery slope bro. TC's can run away wit ya sensibilities real fast.

Whatever ya do, don't get a .35 a Remington barrel for it.

If ya get a Crack Killa barrel for it, let me know an I a send ya some lil bit a brass an some bullets ta get ya goin.

Oh yeah, stay way da hell away from a .221 Fireball. Dats da one dat almost did me in. It's too addictin...

Lotta speed, little holes, cheap bullets an hella good accuracy. Sounds low risk enough, I know, but, trust me, it a hook ya deep.

Real nice bustin prairie dogs about 250 yds out, they pop like popcorn

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Barrels are cheaper than complete guns, but a barrel and scope combo ain't exactly "cheap". I would love to have one, but when the bug bites ya figure out the price of a barrel/scope/brass/bullet/dies/conversion kit/mould combo and then ya see what Slick is talkin bout.

[Tailgunner]

Since it is a BP rifle does it have to go to a FFL? I have wondered that since most black powder rifles don't because they aren't "firearms", but maybe being able to put a center fire barrel on them changes things.

Per the ATF, IF it's made to accept CF barrels, it's considered a CF. The TC Encore series is the prime example of this.

[MakeMineaP99]

Yep.

Muzzleloading and antique firearms are exempt from the provisions of the GCA.

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Per the ATF, IF it's made to accept CF barrels, it's considered a CF. The TC Encore series is the prime example of this.

I figgerd so. Never saw a TC sitting out on a self like muzzleloaders are, and never seen em advertised for sale without a FFL. Paying a background check for a muzzleloader gotta make a man feel a little down.

[MakeMineaP99]

What background check fee?

[MONTEGOD7SS]

The one I have to pay cuz I don't have my CCW.

[MakeMineaP99]

You're getting hosed, the Feds don't charge a FFL for the background check, but since you're in NV, and NV is a point of contact state, your lovely state is sticking it to you.

[yammerschooner]

The one I have to pay cuz I don't have my CCW.

You are getting hosed.

:rofl:

[BigSlick]

Oh man MG, you gettin hosed raw.

Even when ya don't have a CCW in Tejas, da NICS check is free

[JLarsson]

Are you being charged a transfer fee in addition to the background check fee?

I have a CCW license and am kindly exempted from the background check here in MT, but my FFL guy still charges me $25 for each firearm I have shipped to him. Well, I had a pair shipped to him once and he gave me a two-fer, so credit where it's due.

There used to be a fella lived right close to me and would do it for nothin', but he gave up his FFL and moved. And I only got to used his services once. :(

I don't know anyone charging for the background check. :nonod:

[MakeMineaP99]

The $25 fee is a paperwork fee for his time, he's not obligated to charge you anything.

Some states, that serve as points of contact for the FBI for NICS, charge a transaction fee to FFLs, the FBI doesn't for those in non-POC states.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/images/nicspartmap071906.jpg

[craig110]

Craig,

You on a slippery slope bro. TC's can run away wit ya sensibilities real fast.

Whatever ya do, don't get a .35 a Remington barrel for it.

If ya get a Crack Killa barrel for it, let me know an I a send ya some lil bit a brass an some bullets ta get ya goin.

Oh yeah, stay way da hell away from a .221 Fireball. Dats da one dat almost did me in. It's too addictin...

Lotta speed, little holes, cheap bullets an hella good accuracy. Sounds low risk enough, I know, but, trust me, it a hook ya deep.

Real nice bustin prairie dogs about 250 yds out, they pop like popcorn

I hear ya! I can see the floodgates opening to lots of fun calibers. The initial list will be .270, .308, .45-70, .375H&H and if the latter doesn't feel too punishing on my shoulder, possibly .416 Rigby. After that, who knows? Seems to be plenty of aftermarket caliber choices to take down all my free time with.


Barrels are cheaper than complete guns, but a barrel and scope combo ain't exactly "cheap". I would love to have one, but when the bug bites ya figure out the price of a barrel/scope/brass/bullet/dies/conversion kit/mould combo and then ya see what Slick is talkin bout.

I agree, except for the "conversion kit" part. I'm a LnL user and we don't have that cost... :43: Not all my barrels are going to get scopes. I can see one on the .270 and the .308 since I'll be target shooting with them (and maybe the eventual .221 Fireball ;)), but the others will be more for fun unless we discover rampaging elephants in New Hampshire.

But, enough chit-chat. Time to get down to business. Here it is:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w46/craig110/1213082125.jpg


Take a look at the recoil absorbing material in the stock:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w46/craig110/1213082125a.jpg


Finally, my wife spotted something in the store that raises the bar up on casting:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w46/craig110/1213082131.jpg

[MakeMineaP99]

Craig, is the lawyer business that bad you're wearing jeans? Where's those 2 grand suits I always see lawyers wearing?

Nice firearm there.

[Boondockin]

Never thought of the centerfire/Black Powder connection as far as FFL paperwork goes in buying a TC.

To add one more question to the mix...

If you buy a TC in the rifle form. Stock and rifle length barrel.

Can you use that frame and run handgun grip and short barrels on it?

Or are they somehow marked similar to a 10/22 being eather carbine or pistol

:confused:

[craig110]

Craig, is the lawyer business that bad you're wearing jeans? Where's those 2 grand suits I always see lawyers wearing?


:rofl: Believe it or not, some lawyers don't wear their suits everywhere including to bed. When I'm not meeting with clients, I'm quite often in jeans and a t-shirt. Perhaps I'm still a software engineer at heart.

[craig110]

Never thought of the centerfire/Black Powder connection as far as FFL paperwork goes in buying a TC.


Yup, the FFL paperwork applies to a T/C Encore. T/C has some pure muzzleloaders that the paperwork might not apply to, but the Encore is an FFL item regardless of what kind of barrel is on it.


To add one more question to the mix...

If you buy a TC in the rifle form. Stock and rifle length barrel.

Can you use that frame and run handgun grip and short barrels on it?

Or are they somehow marked similar to a 10/22 being eather carbine or pistol

:confused:

Nope and nope. I can't use that frame in a pistol configuration without paying the $200 conversion tax but no, the frames aren't marked. My understanding is that since that frame was first assembled as a rifle, it is a rifle forever and so can't be used as a pistol without being officially converted as such. If I had purchased an Encore pistol (or more properly, was first assembled by the manufacturer as a pistol), that frame would be a pistol forever regardless of whether it looked like a pistol or a rifle. That whole converting back and forth just seems problematic to me, though, and since I'm not really interested in any Encore-based pistols, I bought a rifle frame that will always be used in a rifle configuration. If I ever think of getting into Encore-based pistols, I'll buy a pistol frame and never use it in any configuration other than a pistol. (And, of course, then mark each frame so I don't risk getting them confused with each other.)

[MakeMineaP99]

You got it, Craig.

[yammerschooner]

Looking for a range report with both this and upcoming barrels.

I especially look forward to when you get into the bigger stuff. If you keep your shoulder with 416 rigby I may need to hunt one down.

[Boondockin]

Yup, the FFL paperwork applies to a T/C Encore. T/C has some pure muzzleloaders that the paperwork might not apply to, but the Encore is an FFL item regardless of what kind of barrel is on it.



Nope and nope. I can't use that frame in a pistol configuration without paying the $200 conversion tax but no, the frames aren't marked. My understanding is that since that frame was first assembled as a rifle, it is a rifle forever and so can't be used as a pistol without being officially converted as such. If I had purchased an Encore pistol (or more properly, was first assembled by the manufacturer as a pistol), that frame would be a pistol forever regardless of whether it looked like a pistol or a rifle. That whole converting back and forth just seems problematic to me, though, and since I'm not really interested in any Encore-based pistols, I bought a rifle frame that will always be used in a rifle configuration. If I ever think of getting into Encore-based pistols, I'll buy a pistol frame and never use it in any configuration other than a pistol. (And, of course, then mark each frame so I don't risk getting them confused with each other.)


Thanks Craig!

I remember hearing somthing like a while back. Thanks for clarifyin :thumbsup:

Now if they are not marked, and ya bought one used in eather configuration or just the frame, Would/could ya look up serial# somewhere to make sure it is what it is supose to be?:confused:

You can put a stock and longer barrel on an original handgun frame to basical make it the rifle and still be Leagal right? Besides the technicality of putting the rifle length barrel on first so it is never a short barrel rifle or somthing like that?

I have always wanted a TC. Mostly the 410 handgun for a close range grouse gun. Now looking at that dame nice Black Powder setup ya showin off to us all, that has me :treerat:

So I would like the flexibility to do both, although that will surely lead down the slippery slop 'Slick speak da truth on.

Cannot wait for your range report! Get a pic dat smoke stick puffin like a steam engine :yesnod:

[craig110]

Thanks Craig!

I remember hearing somthing like a while back. Thanks for clarifyin :thumbsup:

Now if they are not marked, and ya bought one used in eather configuration or just the frame, Would/could ya look up serial# somewhere to make sure it is what it is supose to be?:confused:

You can put a stock and longer barrel on an original handgun frame to basical make it the rifle and still be Leagal right? Besides the technicality of putting the rifle length barrel on first so it is never a short barrel rifle or somthing like that?

I have always wanted a TC. Mostly the 410 handgun for a close range grouse gun. Now looking at that dame nice Black Powder setup ya showin off to us all, that has me :treerat:

So I would like the flexibility to do both, although that will surely lead down the slippery slop 'Slick speak da truth on.

Cannot wait for your range report! Get a pic dat smoke stick puffin like a steam engine :yesnod:

I suspect the serial number could be looked up with T/C Arms, but I can't say for sure. As to the order of swapping a handgun to a "really long handgun" configuration and back, I'd first take the existing barrel off, then take the existing stock/grip off (essentially take the frame back to an unassembled configuration) and then add the new stock/grip and the barrel in that order. That should avoid any "oops" moments of realizing that the stock/grip and barrel are illegally configured, even if only temporarily. Since I'm not interested in getting into Encore handguns, though, I'll have the simplification of only having rifle components so I don't even have to worry about the BATFE deciding that since I have the parts to illegally configure it then I constructively have.

[JLarsson]

TC can, and will, look it up for you. Any Encore should be readily accessible in the computer and a phone call will take care of it. Same with G2 Contenders. The older Contenders might take them awhile as they need to look it up and the records are tougher to access somehow.

[craig110]

Made some smoke today! Took my good old time -- which isn't hard when shooting muzzleloaders -- with the loading and inter-shot cleaning. What a blast! The blue cloud that instantly appears is really quite a sight. Between getting to the range not too long before sunset, a phone call with my mom, and running into problems cocking the lever, I ended up only shooting five round balls downrange. What fun, though!

The problem with the cocking lever really threw me for a while. The lever would pull back easily with no primer in place, but when I inserted the primer the lever wouldn't move back. Hmmm, read the manual but nothing on this. I thought that perhaps the breechplug wasn't all the way in, so I took it out and reinserted it. Nope, same problem. Eventually I tried another primer and, lo and behold, the lever cocked just fine and shot. I'm going to call T/C Arms to see what was happening, but 4 out of the 9 primers I tried didn't allow the cocking lever to pull back. I'm not sure if I got a bad batch of primers or if I was sold a type that isn't supposed to be used in the Encore, but I'm sure it will be an easy situation to identify and fix.

The recoil was, well, what recoil? The only time I felt the recoil was when I wasn't holding the gun tightly against my shoulder. Other than that, the recoil absorbing stock really did the job. Of course, I was also starting out with a 2-pellet charge so the recoil might become noticable at 3. I'm quite pleased with the stock at this point.

Accuracy? I didn't really care as I was more interested in getting the technique down pat. Even with concerns (and thus focus) over technique, shooting without glass and at dusk, and using a gun for the first time so I wasn't sure what to expect with recoil, I was quite happy with the grouping I got.

I ended up having to paper-patch the round balls which likely didn't help the accuracy. The store had two diameters listed for .50 cal; .490 and .495. Shucks, I got the wrong one: The .490s can roll down the barrel. At least I only bought 200 round balls. :rolleyes5:

Overall, a great (short) day at the range. It amazes me even more now that wars were fought using these kinds of guns. Sorry, no pics as I was alone.

[MakeMineaP99]

Your mom well?

[craig110]

Your mom well?

Yup, she is fine. She was just in a chatty mood while I'm standing outside in 34 degree weather looking at a new gun waiting its first shot while the sun is heading downward. But, talking to her gets priority.

[MakeMineaP99]

Ah, normally when I get one of those phone calls when I'm in the middle of something important and have to take it, the news isn't good. Glad to hear everyone is well.

[Tailgunner]

I ended up having to paper-patch the round balls which likely didn't help the accuracy. The store had two diameters listed for .50 cal; .490 and .495. Shucks, I got the wrong one: The .490s can roll down the barrel. At least I only bought 200 round balls. :rolleyes5:


With RB, you place a cotton patch over the muzzle, than place the RB in the center of it, and push it home. The different size of RB is to accomadate different thickness of patching.
With RB, the lead dosn't touch the rifling, the patch acts like a sabot and fills in the difference. The trick is to find a ball dia/patch thickness that compresses in the grooves but dosn't cut in the lands. A recovered patch should not be cut, while a recovered RB should show the cloth pattern (light and heavy) all the way around.

[craig110]

With RB, you place a cotton patch over the muzzle, than place the RB in the center of it, and push it home. The different size of RB is to accomadate different thickness of patching.
With RB, the lead dosn't touch the rifling, the patch acts like a sabot and fills in the difference. The trick is to find a ball dia/patch thickness that compresses in the grooves but dosn't cut in the lands. A recovered patch should not be cut, while a recovered RB should show the cloth pattern (light and heavy) all the way around.

Wonderful! Thanks for the insight.