.38 Super

[Peakbagr]

I'm a Bullseye shooter just trying out action shooting games. I took my club's safety orientation and test last March and then did my range qualifier. Hurt by back a month later so I didn't enter any matches and planning to take a range refresher before the outdoor shooting season starts up again this year in little Siberia(upstate NY).

Since last year, I received my new Les Baer in .38Super that had been on order. Flared magwell, fiber optic sights, extra checkering and magazines.
I load but don't have a chrony or want to push the loads to high pressure levels. I'm happy just to compete.

Just started load development with 115 jacketed Hornadys and 122 LFPs over 231. Mild loads in the 4.9gr to 5.0gr area.
I'm guessing its easier to make minor power factor. As long as you don't take another's place with scores, can shooters compete with lower power loads until you get the hang of the sport so long as you tell the people running the match that you're just learning and not shooting the min power factors?

Thanks,
PB

[Steve Koski]

Peak,

If I were you, I'd find a minor PF load (125) and shoot that for a while at IPSC or IDPA matches. Minor is easy to make with the Super, and your load is probably there already. You can estimate velocity from your reloading manual.

If you want, post your exact load and we'll see if we can estimate the velocity for you.

If your load is sub-minor (unlikely) you can still shoot for no-score. They'll let you do this, but they might look at you funny.

Koski

[Peakbagr]

I began at 4.4gr of 231 and worked up to 4.6gr, 4.8gr, 4.9gr and 5.0gr.
With both Hornady 115 XTPs and Tennessee LFP 122s.

The gun wouldn't cycle until 4.8 gr and that was sporadic. At 4.9 and 5.0 it kicks the brass a few feet behind me.
As I mentioned, I'm a Bullseye shooter and accustomed to very light loads with my .45s and .38WCs.
I've read about so many guys really pushing the loads with the Super that I wanted to tiptoe in. It would be fun to be able to make minor and they play there for a while.
I'd appreciate any assistance you could provide.

Thanks,

PB

[Steve Koski]

What powder are you using?

Let me know and I'll look this up in my manuals tonight. (Or maybe someone will beat me to it.)

Good move with working up your loads slowly.

Koski

[ede]

you're 38 isn't going to make major unless you're competing in Open division, all other divisions have a .40 caliber minimum in USPSA, except revolver.

[MakeMineaP99]

PB,

Where about in upstate NY you at? I grew up just north of Buffalo.

[Peakbagr]

Just outside of Albany.

[Steve Koski]

Peak,

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp gives the following data for 38 Super (not +p) (For 38 Super +p they only list one powder):

Bullet Weight (Gr.)ManufacturerPowderBullet Diam.C.O.L.Grs.Vel. (ft/s)PressureGrs.Vel. (ft/s)Pressure
115 GR. HDY XTP Winchester 231 .355" 1.245" 5.7 1198 29,000 CUP 6.1 1261 32,700 CUP

So minimum is 5.7 grains and should give about 1198 FPS which is 137 PF. If you're loading it with 5.0 grains you're probably right near 125 PF. You might bump your load up to 5.2/5.3 grains or so for a bit of insurance. You're still under minimum, for a non +p load to boot!


Bullet Weight (Gr.)ManufacturerPowderBullet Diam.C.O.L.Grs.Vel. (ft/s)PressureGrs.Vel. (ft/s)Pressure
125 GR. CAST LCN Winchester 231 .356" 1.230" 5.1 1129 27,900 CUP 5.7 1214 32,600 CUP

Minimum here is 5.1 grains and should yield about 141 PF, so your load of 5.0 should be well over minor.

Take care,

Koski

[Peakbagr]

Wow,

Thanks very much.

[CaptToyota]

My current major loads consist of 124gr FMJ (ZERO) with w/small rifle primer, and 8.2gr 3N37 I think it is.

If shooting IPSC, a 5" 1911 will score MINOR lawfully in PRODUCTION or LIMITED 10, unless you declare OPEN class to score MAJOR.

This is what I did when I wanted the extra point in score when I would shoot my 5" 1911, as I have a comp gun I normally shot with.

You need minimum of 1331fps to make major with a 124gr, 1364 with a 121gr, 1270 with a 130 for major

In most respects, do not use faster powder with the Super, stick with mid-range pistol powders. I have seen WSF, 540/HS-6, N340, 3N37, N350, AA-#7 used for the Super in the past.

Seeing Dan posted he lived north east of Buffalo, I spent 7yr living 5 mile due north of the east end of the Buffalo Airport runway (E Amherst), and used to shoot IPSC at Tonawanda Sportsman Club (WNYPPL), shot some at Geneva, and 1 or 2 at Rochester Brooks.

[Jerry Snyder]

If you are shooting USPSA, you will be about 15% down on points by shooting minor in open class.

In limited, to make major, you must use a .40 or larger.

In production, all calibers are scored minor.

Revolvers in 38 super are like hens teeth, pretty rare. Most shoot 45acp and make major, or shoot 38 special, or 38 short colts and shoot minor.

Maybe Flex can add a few more pointers if he sees this thread.

All the best

JS

[Peakbagr]

I'd just be happy to compete. The Super will get me into the game. I also have a Smith 952 in 9mm and a Les Baer .45ACP.
Once I get a hang for the game I can decide what to do from there.
Your advice is very helpful and I appreciate it.

PB

[4eyes]

I assume the LB 38 super is a single stack with less than 10 round mags. I think that you can shoot in the USPSA single stack-minor class with the 38 super or the 952.

Welcome to the games. Hope you enjoy. If you're like me and have a yankee soul about losing high dollar super brass; consider getting a 9mm barrel for minor pf games.

[Peakbagr]

I thought about getting a 9mm bbl and spoke to Les Baer about it. He said by the time the cost of a bbl, fitting, bushing, etc is done, its 3/4's the cost of a completely separate P2 in 9mm.

[Steve Koski]

How is old Lester doing these days anyway?

[Peakbagr]

I have 2 other LBs, both .45s. Spoke to Les jr a couple of times with the first shooter. Called another time and Brenda saw him walking thru the shop and put him on and he was very generous with his time. Called him about configuring the .38 Super. He had me on the phone for a half hour about lead vs jacketed, favorite loads, his shooting the 1 1/2 guns (my Super's test target is a 10 shot, 50 yd group of 0.75") and whether it made sense to order an entire top end in 9mm to be fitted the same time as they did the Super.
There are some who've said he's curt and abrupt. I think courtesy begets courtesy. He has been nothing but generous of his time and advice any time I speak with him.