NFA Question....

[VN350X10]

If one has a registered SBR, can it be changed back to a "normal" rifle & de-registered ?

I don't, as I live in The Demokratic People's Republik of IL, but the question came up the other day at the gunshop & it caught my interest.
Freak, any input on this ?

thanks,

uncle albert

[MakeMineaP99]

Yes, send a note to the NFA branch and NFRTR will be updated to reflect the rifle is in non-SBR config. The rifle, once in non-SBR config is not subject to the provisions of the NFA and is a Title I firearm.

Firearms are never removed from the NFRTR, however in the case of short barrelled weapons, the registry is updated to reflect return to Title I status. If the firearm does return to short barrel status, you will need to file a form 1 and pay the $200 BEFORE it returns to short barrel status.

[BigSlick]

Danbrew did a piece on this a while back. Seems he ran into a situation where someone was dealing with an Uzi conversion, where the bolt wasn't married to the gun, and the owner wanted to run the short barrel (as you can imagine).

Eventually, the owner sold the reg bolt and took the gun back to the carbine barrel. It wasn't messy at all, just gotta keep your paperwok straight, especially if you're gonna sell the rifle in Title 1 configuration. No use in the buyer having to deal with payin for a stamp if he's gonna run with the 16" barrel on it.

[VN350X10]

Thanks guys,
I just made a 9" long flash hider for the customer, it's for an AR.
He's moving to IL, but lived in IN & currently the carbine is still residing there.

Thanks again,

albert

[MakeMineaP99]

I would advise he weld the 9" flash hider on, change his barrel out, or otherwise bring the rifle to Title I status (16"+ barrel, 26"+ OAL) and send a notify to the NFA branch to avoid any issues with ATF and the 5320.20. If he's crossing states line, he will have to notify ATF on form 5320.20 of the change of address and ATF frowns upon approving 5320.20 to non-NFA states, unless he plans on leaving the firearm in IN.

[VN350X10]

Game plan is to silver solder the flash hider in place, ie: permanant install.

albert

need to add...
Right now, there aren't any barrels to be had in our area, 3 large suppliers have NONE !
I couldn't even get him a barrel from DPMS & we deal direct with them !
Original plan was to change out to a 20" Hbar & sell the NFA barrel.

[MakeMineaP99]

Al,

Weld it, don't silver solder. There is an ATF letter that states ATF consider 1100* F silver solder permanent, but we all know how that goes.

There is no question about if a weld is permanent. I'd advise you weld around at least half of the barrel, or tack it in four places.

Scroll through this thread for reference:

http://www.glockpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5825&highlight=silver+solder+1100

[VN350X10]

That just makes me a few more bucks on this thing....
I'll offer to Tig weld it !

albert

[MONTEGOD7SS]

If you have to unsolder it how is that any different the machining off a welded on flash hider? Both require more work than just screwing it off, plus the ATF says it's ok. To be extra safe why not just put a 20" barrel on it if you don't think solder is ok?

[MakeMineaP99]

He's the deal, silver solder is a braze, a braze by definition does NOT penatrate the metal. A weld, akin to a casting, does by definition penatrate the metal. What happens when some jackass takes his MAPP torch, heats the damn thing up and then torques the barrel extension off? Can't be done with a weld, sort of cutting it out with a plasma arc cutter or similar.

I'll take my chances in Federal court with a weld. Also, can you tell me the last time you were on a high steel structure with brazed and not welded or bolted joints? Brazing is good for metals that hard to weld or joining dissimilar metals that are difficult if not impossible to weld.

[MONTEGOD7SS]

He's the deal, silver solder is a braze, a braze by definition does NOT penatrate the metal. A weld, akin to a casting, does by definition penatrate the metal. What happens when some jackass takes his MAPP torch, heats the damn thing up and then torques the barrel extension off? Can't be done with a weld, sort of cutting it out with a plasma arc cutter or similar.

I'll take my chances in Federal court with a weld. Also, can you tell me the last time you were on a high steel structure with brazed and not welded or bolted joints? Brazing is good for metals that hard to weld or joining dissimilar metals that are difficult if not impossible to weld.

Just a general WTF does this have to do with a flash hider?

ATF says silver solder is OK, you say its not. Ehhhhh, ok.

[MakeMineaP99]

Just a general challenge to you since you seem to have to prove everypoint I make wrong.

ATF letters are not legal opinion. I never said silver solder wasn't OK, if you acutally read what I posted you would see I advised using a weld opposed to the silver solder for the reasons listed.

You should remember the ATF letter in 2006 that said the Akins Accelertor was not a MG. You should further remember in Dec of 2006, ATF reclassified the Akins Accelerator. Don't be taking an ATF letter into court as your defense.

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Just wondering why you would weld on a rifled barrel if you didn't absolutely have to. I want to stay as far away from the ATF as possible so I would just spend the couple hundred on a new barrel and not take the chance on messing up a good barrel or going to Club Fed.

How the Akins Acclerator was given the OK is beyond me. I am sure right after that letter was sent out a higher up had a stroke when he found out. Technically it did meet the requirements but man it was off the charts on skirting the edge of the law.

No hard feelings, you just easy to work up is all. :)

[MakeMineaP99]

Andy--

In general I HATE welds, as my machine design professor said, "A weld is a crack waiting to happen." I'd much prefer to avoid the damn things. Take a look at a LEFM (linear elastic fracture mechanics) book if you want all the details. I'll warn you, you'll probably fall asleep reading it, so bring a pillow.

The best option as you note is part replacement, with a longer tube, but since everyone is panic buying after the election, the tubes are non-existent and welding will serve as a stop gap measure until he can get a new one and scrap the old one out, since he won't be able to a take a SBR into IL.

The story published on the Akins Accelerator was after the original classification was issued, someone just had to have a letter with their name on it. Well, ATF wasn't in a good mood the second time around. The details were all on subguns, but I forget them now. I know Bill Akins is still in the process of suing the Feds, however, we all know how that goes.

Shane always said you were good at that. ;)

[blueline541]

If one has a registered SBR, can it be changed back to a "normal" rifle & de-registered ?




What's an SBR?

[Dark Horse]

Short barreled Rifle Barrel is under 16"

[MakeMineaP99]

Blueline is just funnin' around (at least I think, he's hard to read some times).

[BigSlick]

What's an SBR?

Easy way ta waste a lotta ammo ;)

[Dark Horse]

I was guessin' he was, but ya never know

[VN350X10]

Just ANOTHER fun thing we can't have here in the Demokratic Peoples Republik of IL/Daley !


:(

[Dark Horse]

VN350X10 if your interested and close enough to WI PM me and I'll let ya know when the next shoot is up here. theres usually a few NFA items. Last one I was at was and AR18, lots of cans and a few SBRs and one AOW the one on the east side had a STG44 among others.

[VN350X10]

Appreciate the offer Dark Horse, but this whole thread was due to a customer's SBR that I made a loooong flash hider for & the proper (read legal) way to attach it.
My own personal likes are in the realm of rifles with 26" & longer barrels.
The ability to reach out & touch a prarie dog @ 500+ yds. is my big thing.
My custom built Savage in 6.5 x .284 has a 29 1/2" McGowan barrel with another 3 1/2" of brake on it. (16 1/2 lbs, 36X scope)
This spring I try for the 1000 yd. club with the Varmint Hunters Ass'n. !
I've shot MG's in the past, but I really can't afford to feed such an extravagance.........

uncle albert
:patriot:

[blueline541]

Blueline is just funnin' around (at least I think, he's hard to read some times).


:biggrinjester: