.223 dies?

[Shovel66]

Hello,
I've been reloading only pistol calibers on a 550B and now want to start loading .223Rem. I've been searching these posts for all relevant info and came up with a wealth of info. Thanks to all.

The question I now have is rifle dies to use. I think I've already decided on the RCBS full lengh X-die set, but I haven't bought them yet so I can be easily persuaded on something else. I'm seeing that they come with a sizer die and seater die. Do I also need to buy a crimp die separately? Will the seating die also crimp the case?

Some of the handgun calibers I load for don't need a separate crimp die.

Thanks,
Shovel

[Brass Nazi]

You usually do not have to crimp bottleneck rounds except for the safari type cartridges. If you do decide to crimp I highly recommend Redding crimp dies.

[AdamN]

Dont really need a crimp die in 223, some will put a light crimp on semi-auto rounds (I have) but for a bolt gun its not really necessary.

[Clark]

In 223 dies, I have:
1) Forster Ultra set with neck honed out to .245" at at the factory on their Hardinge collet lathes.
2) Redding FL "S" die with .245" coated bushing
3) RCBS dies, that I honed out the neck.
4) RCBS dies that I did not hone out the neck
5) Lee RGB dies
6) Lee factory crimp die
7) Lee collet neck die


For .223s I have:
Bushmaster V match
Colt AR
Wilson bull barrel upper
Ruger #1 standard [ was stolen]
Ruger #1V
22LR barrel put on a 1903 Turk action with modified extractor and tight neck .223 reamer
Para Ordnance AR15 pistol [sold it]

I have collections of 223 brass varying from new Lapua down to 5 gallons of mixed that someone sifted out of the dirt.

I have been doing some experiments.
If I push 270 brass at the SAAMI registered 65kpsi, the primer pockets will loosen up.
But the 223, that is SAAMI registered at 55kpsi, the primer pockets will last at 70kpsi.
The primer pockets in hot loads 223 may last, but case length growth becomes a problem with full length re sizing.

I devised ways of measuring the headspace and measuring the case space of my .223 rifles.
I have come to the conclusion that I can ignore the load book max length for cases of 1.76" max and trim to 1.75"
I can use brass that is 1.778" long.
The worst case is the Bushmaster with the short case length and long head space. [The headspace allows the firing pin to push the cartridge, requiring the case to be shorter so the shoulder stops the movement, not the end of the neck]

The amount of growth, with hot loads Redding die adjusted to SAAMI min headspace, can be over .006", which per a load book, would be trimming for every firing.

I put the Lee case head collet in the mill vise and the RCBS 3-way cutter in the drill chuck. I can trim a case in a few seconds.

But I have found I can take any abandoned 223 case, FL size it, skip the trimming, shoot it in one of my .223s, and then resize with the Lee collet neck die.
That brass is then dedicated to that rifle, and will only grow 0.0005" per sizing, and get 20 or 30 uses between trimmings.

The concentricity of the brass produced by the Redding, Forster, and Lee collet are good.

I made a tool for chopping out the donut in the .223 base of the neck.
Like trimming, this is way too much work.

I am now experimenting with putting a washer around the case when collet neck resizing to maintain the base of the neck.
I also want to get the new Forster bushing die that claims to not size the base of the neck.

My 6mmBR reamer has a throat that is long enough so 85 gr Vmax just fit to the lands, but do not touch the donut.
One was of dealing with donuts is to not seat the bullet that deep.

Someone died and I got the Dillion 550B.
He had RCBS 223 dies on it.

[myg30]

Shovel, The rcbs X dies do crimp. I just loaded some with mine. Not to sure if im gonna be happy or not. PITA to size twice. They say to size the brass,trim.020 less the max length[1.760-.020=1.740], then resize again.
Brass not suppose to grow much after that.
I dont like the set up where they say to "try to adjust to the same feel each time" where the cam over point iswhen sizing.
The 55gfmj's I have, have a canalure and im light crimping them.
I let ya know when i shoot em as these are my 1st run of 223.
Once fired LC04,05,07 brass
Varget 25-27.3gs
Win SR primers
COL 2.200
If any one has any input, let me know. I wont be shooting till the weekend... I hope.

Thanks, Mike

[craig110]

Not to sure if im gonna be happy or not. PITA to size twice. They say to size the brass,trim.020 less the max length[1.760-.020=1.740], then resize again.
Brass not suppose to grow much after that.


Sizing twice the first time around might be a pain, but if they work as well as they claim then not having to trim the brass for many reloads after that first time around is nice.

[Shovel66]

Sizing twice the first time around might be a pain, but if they work as well as they claim then not having to trim the brass for many reloads after that first time around is nice.


That's exactly what I was thinking. Of course I don't even have a case trimmer yet. That's a whole nother topic. The search function worked well for this topic. It all depends now on how much I'm willing to spend right now.
Shovel

[myg30]

That's exactly what I was thinking. Of course I don't even have a case trimmer yet. That's a whole nother topic. The search function worked well for this topic. It all depends now on how much I'm willing to spend right now.
Shovel

If you do get the X dies, just remember you WILL need an adjustable one.
The lee cutter w/lock stud and length gage are fixed trim length. The forster kit is not to bad. Suggestions will be offered to help you out.
Im sure someone here that has up graded to a power trimmer will sell ya one cheeeeeep.
If the timing is good, I'll loan you mine fer a week or so.

Mike

[sig2009]

I love my RCBS Small Base X-Dies. I also do use the Lee Factory Crimp Die for .223. It does not roll or taper crimp but puts a very light adjustable crimp about 1/32nd down from the case mouth.