New Hornady LNL-AP Manual Needed?

[thorn]

Ok, I'm going to float this idea and see what the general consensus is.

It's generally agreed by LNL-AP owners that the manual is not as good as it could be.

Some pages give far more detail than is necessary - for example, a diagram will contain arrows/part names that aren't needed to perform a particular step. Other steps cross-reference pages too much; instead of pointing to a part, the manual will refer you to another page (which of course requires the owner to determine re-read the whole referenced page and filter through 6 paragraphs to find the 2 sentences they're looking for.)

In at least one instance i can remember, steps are listed in a rather strange order. Page 8 discusses how to operate the press, which is interesting given that the owner isn't shown how to insert dies until page 14. Die instructions only come with dies, and the powder measure has a separate manual forcing the owner to continually pick up a different manual. The PTX comes with a small piece of paper giving only the bare minimum of info, and again referring you to steps 5/6 in the powder measure manual.

Finally, the manual simply doesn't give adequate information on adjustments that you may need to do... the manual seems to be written as if the adjustments aren't ever needed at all, yet my hour with a new PTX last night proves otherwise...

So here's my question - is it actually worth it to the LNL-AP community to have a completely rewritten manual with color pictures, real-world tips, etc? If you've had the press for years, then probably not as you already know more than a manual. But for new owners, I suspect it would be valuable.

Thoughts & opinions welcomed. :)

thorn

[MakeMineaP99]

Thorn,

I'm a mechanical engineer by trade, I rarely look at instructions on anything, so I voted maybe.

For someone who is not mechanically inclined (I guess we have some liberal arts types around here), I could see the benefit.

I'd be willing to help put a new manual together, however, what I think we should do is write an open letter to Horandy with a detailed post mortum of the LNL design (we do a tech review and post mortum after every project in my business). Hornady needs to start increasing their attention given to reloaders, starting with a new LNL instruction manual.

[DssG19]

I think an all new manual would be great. The LnL was my first press and I was pretty clueless on setting up equipment when I first got started. When I first cracked the manual open I was a bit confused to say the least. Having to jump back and forth between three different unclear manuals was a pain in the ass. It should have come with a step by step procedure with pictures for press setup, powder measure setup, die setup, and press operation.

It took alot of trial and error to get it working. BTW it should include tips on cleaning the powder measure, upgrading the powder rotor(I finally got my upgarded rotor and i'm getting a consistant drop), and general tips that have been posted (like your 9mm wire bend demo). If I think of anything else that confused the hell out of me i'll let ya know.

[bhawkeye]

I think Hornady needs to get a clue from Dillon & get with the program.

They need to include instructions for all the press options. They haven't re-done the manual as they have improved the press. The basic manual should have:Lots of real photos (not line drawings);

Sections that cover installation of not only the basic press - but the CAPD & the case feeder;

Die adjustment (including the powder through expander/belling dies);

Much better maintainance & troubleshooting tips.
In addition to the manual, they should improve the press design to:
Fix the eject wire issue - make it so the eject function is reliable for all calibers & doesn't interfere with any manufacturer's crimp dies.

Improve the primer seating - with an adjustable seating depth feature.

Offer a Dillon style roller handle.
I think if they made these improvements to the press & the suggested re-write of the manual, Hornady would have a press that would be a truly great reloading press. Seems to me like it should cost them much less than their free bullet deal & be a longer-lasting benefit to their customers. :seeya:

[soundwave]

Voted yes for all the reasons mentioned above. I am not one to look at instructions usually, but this is different.

[Oreo]

After having spent a little time with my LNL, I feel more qualified to vote now.

I voted yes.

I managed to figure it all out based on other resources available on the web & also just by my own mechanical inclinations. But I found the manual to be almost completely useless. It seems to me that a well written manual would serve as a good marketing tool as well as an instructional resource to the new reloader.

[Glooooock]

I think to some degree they assume your an experienced reloader with 1-3 yrs on a single stage press . With wide range of cartridges , there are too many variations on setups for one manual to cover them.

I like DVDs as they give more info than a 10 page paper manual with 8 pages of ads for accessories .

Web manuals are great as you get revisions / print copies away from home.Due to liability they never post " Our priming system has problems with the slide and ram ,which can be fixed by ****** " You have to come here an read the owners / user posts .

Most manuals are written to a minimal level , to keep from confusing new owners.

YES they need to be better .

[TowsonTiger22]

I like video too. Maybe a set like the folks with the Loadmaster did? Somethings are just easier to show than to convey through print.

[unclebob]

Well was it worth the free bullets??? Sorry had to do it.:devil::devil:

[TowsonTiger22]

I need to get off my ass and send off for those. I think I'm gonna get the 30 cals. That way I can use them for .30-06, .30 carbine, .300 Winmag, and .308.

[MakeMineaP99]

You can't use 30 cal rifle bullets in 30 Carbine.

[creophus]

Why not? I thought the ~100gr bullets would work in both?

[MakeMineaP99]

You can load the 30 cal pistol bullets in '06, but not the other way around, no 150 gr BTHP in 30 Carbine. 30 Carbine is akin to a pistol round, it actually reloads very similar to .357 mag.

[creophus]

Ah, I see what you're saying. 30 carbine similar to a .357 in ballistics too? ;)

[MakeMineaP99]

More or less, higher velocity though.

[nreamer]

They need to update the manual big time. Perhaps do like some companies and have a quick start guide, but some people like me actually use manuals on an ongoing basis, as a reference. I am very mechanically inclined, but I find it quicker to read and then setup as opposed to attempt setup, get frustrated, then read.

I love my LNL, but almost wish I had bought a DIllon 650 now. I load lead bullets and was excited about the powder through expanders they had, only to find out they only worked with jacketed bullets. I use a RCBS Powder Cop die on my press, and crimp using Lee FCD for all calibers. Having to use the expander die forces me to have to do my crimping as a separate step on my Rock Chucker.

What I am getting at is that they announced many months ago powder through expanders for lead bullets, but they are not to be found! Come on Hornady!

[ddcarter3]

They only work with jacketed bullets??
I went with one of these anyway.
http://www.powderfunnels.com/

[nreamer]

Yes, jacketed only. They are just now coming out with ones for lead bullets. I tried the original ones, and they have the bullets pretty badly.

Thanks for the link! That is awesome! I am checking that site out as soon as I finish this post.

[nreamer]

They only work with jacketed bullets??
I went with one of these anyway.
http://www.powderfunnels.com/

I have placed my order!

[tEN wOLVES]

I have placed my order!

You'll be glad you you did, Dan's PTX is the best thing going, I load 45 long Colt, lead RNFP, and it works like a champ, just a heads up, another poster on a forum I moderate, had four Dillon 650's, when anouther poster ask him how he liked them, he said he sold all of them and replaced them with Hornady LnL AP's, he said he had an on going problem with the 650's feeding consistently where the LnL AP's runs fine all the time, he said he got tired of the stop in go stuff, I'm sure Dillon would have walked him through this, Dillon does make a fine press too and stand behind there products.

Regards

tEN wOLVES

[HairlessOtter]

Ok, sounds like a good idea. Why don't people start listing things learned know matter how simple.

if the primer slide will feed but not return check and make sure the seater nut underneath is tight.

if the you are having feed problems with the case feeder check, slightly adjust the angle of the tube and feeder.

if you having timing issues with the feeder make sure the rail nuts are adjusted and tight.

Simple things like this would be a great resource.

Oh, and I am new here. I like shooting guns, making rounds, playing hockey, and smoking cigars. I post on a few other sites, but read mainly. This seems to be a smaller friendly group, maybe I will be more active here.

[BigSlick]

Welcome HO :thumbsup:

ALWAYS good to have a fellow/another Texan on board :supergrin:

[jawjaboy]

Good post HO.

Welcome to GlockPost.

We hope that you will be active here. What you said makes absolute sense.

[HairlessOtter]

Well collecting knowledge is the best attribute of the internet. Might as well make it onestop shopping. Besides, it would only drive traffic to the sight. The "if" "then" collection list is an easy way to start the knowledge.

and Thanks for the welcome guys.

[bigboremaico]

I had a LoadMaster. Then I bought the LnL Ap. I don't think either one needed an updated manual so I voted not. The LnL AP Had a video. I watched it once, read thru the instructions and have been rolling my own ever since (in the father-in-law and I are going to smoke lot's of rounds tomorrow. I have lost track of how many LnL AP rounds I have shot so I will calculate it later but If I shoot what I have made up tomorrow I will have shot about 12,000 rds of home rolled stuff. So far (now I'm going to jinx myself, have a bunch of squibs and a KB and rats%&t a customer gun) I have had ZERO issues.

Like I said, there was nothing wrong with the Lee LM instructions. BTW, the LM was my first press, the LnLAP my second, so I'm kinda green at it still.


Roll on.

BBM