Brand new, Looking for a .308 Expert.

[Cavalry Doc]

OK, I'll try to make this quick.

I'm using a Lee Loader (trust me, the first time you whack a bullet with a hammer, that's pucker factor right there :))

DPMS LR 308 AP4 with a 1 in 10 inch 16 inch barrel. (It's an AR 10 in an M4 configuration)

155 gr A-MAX Moly coated bullets, CCI Large rifle benchrest primers, 44 grains of Varget. Measuring powder carefully with Lee Safety scale. 44 gr is the bottom edge of the scale per the Hodgdon loading guide. I can go up as high as 47. Being that this is a gas gun, I'd probably like to stay below

No feeding problems at all.

A little wind on my first day out, but ended up with a 1.8 inch 5 shot group at 100 yds.


http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/Photo0063.jpg



I wasn't absolutely careful, fired the group in less than a minute, no barrel cooling, fired from a bipod. It was more of a proof of concept.

I was pretty sure of my aiming point. These are accurate enough for feral hogs, but would like to shrink the group down below an inch.



Any advice other than make another batch and head back to the range with my rest next time?


I appreciate any help you can offer.

Thanks,


http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/CavDoc-1.gif

[AdamN]

Welcom Doc; You using a scope on that setup??

Not to bad but ive heard/read of sub 1" out of most 308 AR's. Of course thats off a bench with a scope.

If thats Iron sights or a lower powered scope I would be pretty happy.

To extract all the accuracy a gun can deliver a better trigger/rest/scope helps

[BigSlick]

...If thats Iron sights or a lower powered scope I would be pretty happy.


+1

Pretty good shooting off hand or open sights. I'm nowhere near that good of a shot offhand.

As far as accuracy from a loading standpoint, I would settle in on some bags with a decent piece of glass and see how that load does before I change anything.

AMax bullets are excellent, but, if they don't give you the accuracy you're looking for, you might give a 168 SMK a try. Loads of data for that bullet out there. I don't shoot an AR10 so I'm not sure what your options might be with respect to changing seating depth with that bullet.

Welcome to GP ;)

[MakeMineaP99]

A chamber cast might be an idea to see what you're working with. Do the AR10 have a long enough throat for 165/168+ gr?

[AdamN]

I think the general term (AR10) chambers are going to vary a bit from manufacturer. Many parts wont even swap between some brands (Unlike AR15)

Im slowly getting into the Armalite variant, still working on getting all the parts together and machining the lower.

Another member (Creophus) did a good review of a DPMS here http://www.glockpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8561

[creophus]

A chamber cast might be an idea to see what you're working with. Do the AR10 have a long enough throat for 165/168+ gr?
The DPMS LR series does a great job with 165/168gr bullets. Sub MOA with boring regularity.

Doc,

I can get sub MOA from 150 gr bullets and 45 grains of Varget. I have the LRT-SASS and the only difference between our setups are the barrel length and cosmetics.

You mind posting pics in the AR thread?
http://www.glockpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8057

I'm certainly no expert on loading 308 or the DPMS LR series, but I get some good results. I loaded up to about 47 grains of powder under the 150gr bullet. You should beat the gun up if you stay within published specs. I have no experience with shooty moly bullets. Does it affect the gas system?

Welcome to the board, there's some great people here.

Adam is right, the AR-10 series is NOT standardized like the AR-15 is.

[BoltNut]

Welcome Doc! How cool...you even have your own smiley signature!!! I hope you find the site informative and fun - please contribute with some educational opportunities for all of us to learn from too. :-)

[MullahElRon]

I've enjoyed following your impressive results from the Lee Loader/Safety Scale combination. Y'all ain't afraid of some adversity Doc! :cool:

[Tailgunner]

Make sure your sight bases & mounts are properly SNUGGED (not stupid tight)Leave the bipod at homeUse a good set of bas under the receiver (just ahead of the mag) and butstockTake your time, 1 minute/shotLoad 7 more batches of 5, at 44.0, 44.5, 45.0.....47.0gr eachDo everything as carefully as you can, esp the shooting phase.Select the best grouping of the above loads and retest them with 10 shot groups. Settle on the load that has consistantly given you the tightest groups.If you find 2 loads that are close together in both group size and powder charge, you can (if you want) try loads inbetween those 2 (accuracy loading is like working either a sine wave or a bell curve, with the peak being the smallest group and the vallies being the large groups) in 0.1gr increments.

[Cavalry Doc]

First, to answer a couple of the questions.

Yes, I am using a scope, but it's only 1.5 to 6 x. 16 inch carbine barrel.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/P1020784.jpg

I have no idea what a chamber cast is? Are you actually talking about making a casting of the chamber? Interesting.
Yes, the AR10 is supposed to like 168 gr bullets, but they are a bit hard to find right now.

The moly bullets don't seem to be causing any problems. Evidently they are controversial, btu they are working.


===============================================




OK, went back to the range today. 5 rounds each of:

155gr A-MAX Moly, 48gr H414

155gr A-MAX Moly, 44.4gr Varget.

Shot from my rest this time.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/Photo0064.jpg

The above 5 shot group is the Varget. The H414 shot a 2 inch group. The Varget group is 1.25 inches down from 1.8 inches with 44gr.


So, I'm thinking of cranking it up to 44.8 gr. ?too Fast? That is still pretty far from the max at 47gr per the Hodgdon reloading data. I've already sort of promised myself that I would stop at 46 for my personal max. It's a gas gun with a 16 inch carbine barrel, and if I can squeeze it down to 1 inch or better groups, I'm a happy camper.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/smileycav.jpg

[creophus]

That's a nice scope you got there Doc.

Those groups are nice already, depending upon how far away your target is. You shooting at 100 yards?

Don't let the 1 inch group plague you. 1.2 inches is nothing to sneeze at.

[Cavalry Doc]

That's a nice scope you got there Doc.

Those groups are nice already, depending upon how far away your target is. You shooting at 100 yards?

Don't let the 1 inch group plague you. 1.2 inches is nothing to sneeze at.


100 yard range. The gun club range I go to also has 200 and 300 yard ranges.

1.2 inches is fine for what I want to do, which is mainly hunting. Most of the shots I make are between 40 and 120 yards, and this is good enough for head shots on feral hogs.

At the same time, I've gotten 0.7 inch groups from Hornady TAP, and would like to replicate that. The cost is really not the issue, it's availability.

[creophus]

Ok, so you've got the skills to make the group you want. That's a good thing.

I'd say as you try the bullet with the particular powder then work up in 1 grain increments. After you get close, then work in half grain increments.

Btw...those TAP rounds moly coated? ;)

[BigSlick]

Is that a NC Star scope ? or ?

[Tailgunner]

You at 44.5 (close enough), I'd load 3 more at 44.5 and 3 each at 45.0, 45.5, 46.0, 46.5 and 47.0gr and shoot careful groups with each of those, while looking for any abnormal function / brass issues.

[Cavalry Doc]

Ok, so you've got the skills to make the group you want. That's a good thing.

I'd say as you try the bullet with the particular powder then work up in 1 grain increments. After you get close, then work in half grain increments.

Btw...those TAP rounds moly coated? ;)


Nope, the TAP are standard A-MAX bullets. Bullets are a bit hard to find at the moment. I'm shopping for another hundred bullets right now. Everyone keeps telling me that 168 gr is the sweet spot for 1 in 10 inch twist barrels.

Oh well, I'm in sheep mode, and am perfectly willing to try some 168 gr boat tail bullets. I'll let you know if I find some.

[Cavalry Doc]

Is that a NC Star scope ? or ?


Yep, it is. http://www.lasersales.com/images/NcStar/SM3R15640G.jpg

It works rather well. The illuminated reticle is better for CQB than it is for low light conditions.

I'm very happy with it.

[creophus]

Nope, the TAP are standard A-MAX bullets. Bullets are a bit hard to find at the moment. I'm shopping for another hundred bullets right now. Everyone keeps telling me that 168 gr is the sweet spot for 1 in 10 inch twist barrels.

Oh well, I'm in sheep mode, and am perfectly willing to try some 168 gr boat tail bullets. I'll let you know if I find some.
Try some 165gr bullets. They perform the same but are easier to find. Sierra Gamekings are coming to mind.

[Glooooock]

I think you are extracting, pretty much what that rifle can do . Just my opinion .

[BigSlick]

Toss up between the SMK and AMax.

It's gonna come down to what your rifle likes best.

Fortunately, my rifles like SMK's and AMax well enough to put meat on da table

From the bench it's hard to say, both shoot MOA or better if I do my part, with a slight edge going to the 168 SMK with a shot of 4064.

175's the AMax seems to do better with H4895 using the same OAL and primer

[creophus]

I think you are extracting, pretty much what that rifle can do . Just my opinion .
Nah, he can probably get a bit more out of it.

Toss up between the SMK and AMax.

It's gonna come down to what your rifle likes best.

Fortunately, my rifles like SMK's and AMax well enough to put meat on da table

From the bench it's hard to say, both shoot MOA or better if I do my part, with a slight edge going to the 168 SMK with a shot of 4064.

175's the AMax seems to do better with H4895 using the same OAL and primer
What rifle & twist rate you firing those out of Slick?

[MakeMineaP99]

A chamber cast is a cast of the chamber with cerrosafe to see how the chamber is cut, specifically at the neck , shoulder and throat area. Among other things, it will allow you to determine the leade to the rifling (some rifles are cut to minimum spec, i.e. 70 thou in 30-06 or 308 for a 150 gr BTHP or similar, not the typical 350 thou for 200+ gr slugs, how sloppy the chamber was cut, and give you an idea of what to expect from your loads. A sloppy chamber will not shoot like a tight one.

Brownells has a great acticle about chamber casts/cerrosafe on their website.

[Cavalry Doc]

A chamber cast is a cast of the chamber with cerrosafe to see how the chamber is cut, specifically at the neck , shoulder and throat area. Among other things, it will allow you to determine the leade to the rifling (some rifles are cut to minimum spec, i.e. 70 thou in 30-06 or 308 for a 150 gr BTHP or similar, not the typical 350 thou for 200+ gr slugs, how sloppy the chamber was cut, and give you an idea of what to expect from your loads. A sloppy chamber will not shoot like a tight one.

Brownells has a great acticle about chamber casts/cerrosafe on their website.


Cool. Who knew? Well, I guess all of you guys did. Guess that's why I'm here asking questions.

I've spent more of my time becoming an expert in what happens on impact that in the chamber.

I've got my next batch ready for the range.

[MakeMineaP99]

Honestly, who knows this stuff inside and out in Tailgunner, he's been my mentor and I just recently got my first bench rest capable gun, if I can get the shooter to behave. ;) Still learning quite a bit myself.

One of the most important things to do is define your scope, what do you need to do? Then do what you need to do it, be it improving your loads, rifle or the shooter. The weak portion of the triangle is me, for Tailgunner, probably his ammo, he can outshoot his rifle.

[Cavalry Doc]

It was meant to be a CQB and medium range carbine. I have a 1.5 - 6x Scope with an illuminated reticle, It is meant for home home and ranch defense, and for Deer and Feral Hog hunting with shots that are almost always less than 200 yards, frequently less than 100. I'd be very interested in the rifles ability to function quickly under 20 yards.

After seeing many people and beasts shot with 5.56, I'm a big fan of the 7.62 x 51.

The finish line is MOA accuracy with this 16 in barrel sem-auto carbine.

Hopefully, I'll be doing a happy dance in a few weeks.

If not. 1.2 ain't too bad either.

[Tailgunner]

C-Doc
MMA is gonna make me blush.
I don't know why the sentences & paragraphs ran together on my first post, but you seem to have answered most questions I had.

In my second post I told you what I'd try for powder charge steps (with Varget as that's what you've gotten, so far, decent results with). A sharpie note on the cases to tell you which load is which, is a handy tool.
I use 3 shot groups, not to decide what's "best" but to decide "what dosn't work". From there I re-test the best grouping loads with 5 shot groups and than the best of those I re-do with 10 shot groups and than start the next phase wih thae powder charge that "wins" the 10 round "shoot off".

After the shooting MMA and I did this weekend, the phrase becoming an expert in what happens on impact that in the chamber seems like a lofty goal. Learning to do brain transplants might be easier and faster. I don't want to jump the gun (pun intended) , but we instrumented a barrel and ran 160+ pressure trace graphs, and I can tell you that the raw data looks nothing like the nice pressure graph pictures you see in the loading manuals. IMHO it was a worthwhile exersize, as it raised a number of good "secondary detail" questions, while at the same time backing up the origional theory/effect MMA was wanting to study. MMA now has the "fun" task of crunching all the numbers to try and make sense of everything.

[Cavalry Doc]

C-Doc
MMA is gonna make me blush.
I don't know why the sentences & paragraphs ran together on my first post, but you seem to have answered most questions I had.

In my second post I told you what I'd try for powder charge steps (with Varget as that's what you've gotten, so far, decent results with). A sharpie note on the cases to tell you which load is which, is a handy tool.
I use 3 shot groups, not to decide what's "best" but to decide "what dosn't work". From there I re-test the best grouping loads with 5 shot groups and than the best of those I re-do with 10 shot groups and than start the next phase wih thae powder charge that "wins" the 10 round "shoot off".

After the shooting MMA and I did this weekend, the phrase seems like a lofty goal. Learning to do brain transplants might be easier and faster. I don't want to jump the gun (pun intended) , but we instrumented a barrel and ran 160+ pressure trace graphs, and I can tell you that the raw data looks nothing like the nice pressure graph pictures you see in the loading manuals. IMHO it was a worthwhile exersize, as it raised a number of good "secondary detail" questions, while at the same time backing up the origional theory/effect MMA was wanting to study. MMA now has the "fun" task of crunching all the numbers to try and make sense of everything.



No kidding, without bragging, I am a subject matter expert in wound ballistics. I've studied hard, and have many years of real world experience that I have gained at great risk to my corporeal presence on the planet.

I've been a firearms enthusiast since the age of 18. I'm a mere 23 years beyond that point, but I have seen a lot in that amount of time.http://fc07.deviantart.com/fs11/i/2006/208/8/8/_whistle__by_niftologist.gif

I've seen well over a hundred people shot. I've seen more than a hundred animals shot, I've personally shot more than a hundred myself. Don't ask for the ratio, some things I refuse to brag about. It's rude.


I'm at 1.2 Minute of angle with handloads, but I've been at 0.7 groups with factory ammo.

I'll find a sub MOA recipe, and use it for my primary recipe.


You don't have to help. You have the ability to surf on to other pastures.

No kidding, it's hard to tell if you are trying to be helpful, or critical. I don't mean to be resistant to good advice.

If I'm off base, let me know.

[Tailgunner]

I'm at 1.2 Minute of angle with handloads, but I've been at 0.7 groups with factory ammo.
OK, so we know the rifle and shooter are capable of better than 1 MOA. Now we need to tune the load


I'll find a sub MOA recipe, and use it for my primary recipe.
Again, work up, from min to max in small increments. I like 1/2gr steps where the range is large enough, others like to use 10 steps from min to max. Your option.



You don't have to help. You have the ability to surf on to other pastures.

No kidding, it's hard to tell if you are trying to be helpful, or critical. I don't mean to be resistant to good advice.
If I wasn't trying to be helpful, I'd have ignored your request for assistance.


If I'm off base, let me know.
You are, and I just did.

[Cavalry Doc]

OK, so we know the rifle and shooter are capable of better than 1 MOA. Now we need to tune the load



Again, work up, from min to max in small increments. I like 1/2gr steps where the range is large enough, others like to use 10 steps from min to max. Your option.




If I wasn't trying to be helpful, I'd have ignored your request for assistance.



You are, and I just did.

Well then, I appreciate your assistance. No kidding, I'm here looking for help.

I'll admit to being new at reloading. I'm not new to shooting.

I'm not new to wound ballistics. I understand that http://www.ajdesigner.com/phpenergykenetic/kenetic_energy_equation.png x Anatomy Cubed.


Ive seen the effects numerous times.

But no kidding, I came to this site to learn. Not to argue.

I'm only trying to put a 155 gr bullet in a 1 inch hole.

The reasons for doing that, and all the tactics involved in using that skill, I already have.


I imagine that I will soon be trying to get a 168 grain bullet into a one inch hole.

But I love to tinker with toys. It's fun.


http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/CavDoc-2.gif

[MakeMineaP99]

Tailgunner and myself weren't studying wound ballistics. We were studying internal, kinda worded poor up above. Internal/external are hard sciences, terminal not so much. I'll stick to the hard stuff. All you need to know is about terminal is hit something with enough ft-lbs and it dies. ;)

Next step after playing with your components on hand, is to try some different slugs. Sierra makes both 155 and 168 gr MKs, also, maybe some Nosler slugs, BTs shoot slightly better in one of my rifles than SMKs.

[Cavalry Doc]

Tailgunner and myself weren't studying wound ballistics. We were studying internal, kinda worded poor up above. Internal/external are hard sciences, terminal not so much. I'll stick to the hard stuff. All you need to know is about terminal is hit something with enough ft-lbs and it dies. ;)

Next step after playing with your components on hand, is to try some different slugs. Sierra makes both 155 and 168 gr MKs, also, maybe some Nosler slugs, BTs shoot slightly better in one of my rifles than SMKs.


Terminal ballistics is the realization of all of the work you've gone through.
Considering that I've shot the bottom half of a deer's heart off at 40 yards with a .30-06, and watched it run for another 50 yards, I'd say that terminal ballistics and knowledge of your target's anatomy are still important.


Either way, I'm still just here asking for help, not trying to be smarter or tougher than the next guy. I'm just a guy, new to hand loads, looking for a bit of help in public.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/CavDoc-2.gif

[CZ93X62]

I'm very fond of WW-748 in the 308. Using the 168 Sierra Matchkings, in W-W cases with WLR primers, 45.5 grains gave duplicate ballistics to our Federal Gold Match loads used in the issued Ruger 77V and later Remington 700V bolters, roughly 2625 FPS in 24" barrels. The reloads could keep up with and sometimes out-shoot the factory stuff, which ran .75-1.25 MOA depending on the rifle involved. Rems were better overall than Rugers (all MK-Is), but not greatly so. All had Leup Vari-X III 3.5x-10x glassware--some 40mm, some 50mm.

I'm another fan of Nosler Ballistic Tips. The 165 grain BTs shoot wonderfully in every 30-06 and 308 I've tried them in--every bit as good as the vaunted 168 SMK. Seat them .020" away from the rifling leade, and go make chrysanthemums downrange.

[MisterLady27]

Howdy All,

1. Just reading the thread brought back memories of 1990 and a little time at FLW, MO. :) I was getting another dose of military education, but I ran across a real fine rifleman named Goldsby and we shot some matches at Camp Robinson near Little Rock, AR.

2. There I was, certain that I was hot stuff AbnRgr w/ my M1A bought right from SA at Geneseo, and this "old guy" with a bolt gun ------NRA HighPower = iron sights -- humbled me up and down the range. At 600yds, I was having a good day with all rounds on the target; I pulled and pasted targets for these "old guys" that had all ten rounds inside a 12" circle. I still can see that, and the bullet trace cutting the mirage, in my head. Thanks for the memories. That was just before I spent the first go in SWA.

3. As I remember, Goldsby won the long range championship somewhere (?Perry?) that year.

ML27

:patriot:

[Cavalry Doc]

:shocked:

OK, so I got a bit distracted by moving my Daughter off to college in Austin and a few other minor issues. (I've earned my hairline)



I finally got to go to the range with another set of three slightly different recipes.

Same 150 gr A-MAX Moly bullets, same brass for the third time around, 5 shots each with Varget 44.5, 45.0 & 46.0 gr.

I had a solid rest, hand loaded each into the chamber, took 2 minutes in between each shot to allow for cooling, and 10 minutes in between each round of 5 shots.

Results were not bad. 1.2 to 1.5 inch groups, but I started running into issues with the brass. I guess it's important to mention that I've been reloading cheap Monarch Brass from Serbia. I had 2 rounds that the extractor pulled through the base of the round.

Well, that does it. I should have listened to those more experienced than I, and realized that resizing the neck only is not a good idea in a semi auto. http://fc07.deviantart.com/fs46/f/2009/173/7/6/worship_emoticon_by_sheep0creator.gif

That being said I thought that...... well..... 1.2 inches at 100 yards ain't too bad for a carbine semi auto with a 6x scope. Heck, those would all be brain pan shots on a feral hog. Mission accomplished, right???





But then I shot a few rounds of cheep 150 grain soft tip federal, you know, just to get some better brass to reload. But this time, I didn't wait more than 10 to 20 seconds in between shots. :dunno: 0.74 inch 5 shot group centered 1/2 inch above my point of aim.

Well after I picked up the ton of bricks I ****, I started thinking logically (I know, a dangerous endeavor), why not throw in the towel and spend the money I would spend on a reloading press on cheap Federal soft tips, since she likes that flavor so much. I can get them for less than $15 for 20 rounds here, and since "cheaper than dirt" (ammo price gougers:chainsaw:) are now selling cheap and loose military surplus for $499 per 500 rounds, get the federal for $375 for 500 rounds. I have a rather healthy supply of that, and will be buying more, whenever I can find it.

The problem is that I am a compulsive "fixer". I did have a friend that was with me on the range yesterday call me and tell me he found two boxes of the same ammo in a different town this afternoon, and they are both setting next to me.

I'm going to have to score a reloading press and a quality set of dies, and start over.

The lee loader will still be useful, because I still plan on using it for certain tasks, and it will reload in the field. Contingency plans are important.

I just want to say that I really appreciate all of the advice I've gotten here, and hope that you old hats don't mind a noob cutting his baby teeth on the forum.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/CavDoc-2.gif

[BIGGUNGOBOOM]

Military brass is thicker, and your running towards a max load there. might not be good for the AR. the hotter the load dosent always mean that its gonna be more accurate. I personally like 40.5 grains of H4895 for 155-168 grain bullets. has em touching and burns clean. has been a great go to load for My FAL and 308 police. burns out there quick also. get your self a single stage press and a good powder dispenser and a trickler. start low and work up rembering that military brass should be down loaded by 1 grain. try 40.0, 40.5, 41.0 grains of h4895 and I bet those groups will pull in.

best of luck, and rember, FACTORY AMMO IS THE DEVIL

[creophus]

By neck sizing only, I'm surprised you even got the round in the chamber. I have to use a small base die to get rounds to work reliably.

What are you using to throw your powder charges? Sounds like you have some inconsistency.

[Cavalry Doc]

By neck sizing only, I'm surprised you even got the round in the chamber. I have to use a small base die to get rounds to work reliably.

What are you using to throw your powder charges? Sounds like you have some inconsistency.


Actually, I was able to reload the set of brass three times befre I started having problems. It was also cheep Serbian Monarch brand brass. I'm pretty confident in the powder charges, I'm using a Lee Safety scale. It seems pretty sensitive, and I've re-weighed the powder from an earlier round after loading several others and got exactly the same measurement.

So, I won't be reloading any of the Serbian stuff until I get a press, and am able to fully resize the brass.

[Cavalry Doc]

Military brass is thicker, and your running towards a max load there. might not be good for the AR. the hotter the load dosent always mean that its gonna be more accurate. I personally like 40.5 grains of H4895 for 155-168 grain bullets. has em touching and burns clean. has been a great go to load for My FAL and 308 police. burns out there quick also. get your self a single stage press and a good powder dispenser and a trickler. start low and work up rembering that military brass should be down loaded by 1 grain. try 40.0, 40.5, 41.0 grains of h4895 and I bet those groups will pull in.

best of luck, and rember, FACTORY AMMO IS THE DEVIL


The MFR website states that with a 150 gr bullet, 44-47 grains of Varget is the proper amount.

I'm sold on getting a press now. The Monarch brand brass that I am using is commercially available, sold in boxes of 20, but may or may not be military spec brass. I had already decided to give myself a 1 gr buffer, and was not planning on going above 46.


I'm also thinking that a heavier bullet may help too. I'll reload my reloading supplies with a few different items, and try again later.

[BigSlick]

Every gun is different, so, it might take a little work, but you will definitely be able to find the combination that works for your gun.

I have one old .308 I beat my head against da wall with for years. It got to the point I was about ready to just sell it off. I got some strange (to me) 145gr bullets from a shooting bud and decided to finish off the last little bit of 2460 that really wasn't worth a damn in anything else with em. They shot as good as the best I had found, so I went thru a full workup and finally got the gun to do a little over an inch with it. That's good enough for my intended use for the gun, so I ended up keepin it.

When you get a press set up, you'll have some good days, an some better days, and every now and again, it's just best to walk away and come back another time.

Either way, when you get it dialed in, just start on ya next one ;)

Keep good notes, it a save ya a lotta work

[creophus]

I'm also thinking that a heavier bullet may help too.
According to your earlier post 150gr bullets shoot just fine in that gun of yours. I'd suggest getting a different bullet, even if it's the same weight. Have you tried a factory loading for moly bullets?

[fredj338]

Varget is a good choice but don't overlook other pwoder/bulletcombos. IMO, drop the moly coaitng. The bullets are cheaper & if you switch between cheaper FMJ for practice & a hunting bullet, you won't lose accuracy. Moly bullets like to be shot in bores "conditioned" by moly bullets. For best accuracy. clean the bore thoroughly between moly & non moly bullets. Other good powder choices are H4895 or IMR4895, RL15 & VV150.

[swingpress]

Late to the party here, but I feel like there are two things that need to be said to the OP if he's still around and hasn't picked them up yet.

1. All factory ammo can be beat by good handloads. If factory ammo shoots .7, you can do better with proper loading techniques and components.

2. Ladder testing is where it's at for quick and easy load development. Maybe it's not sufficient for benchrest, I don't know, but it will get you past factory loads in a hurry.

[HotGuns]

The biggest increase in accuracy that I have seen comes not from the powder charges, but the OAL of the bullet. I try to load it as long as possible and still fit the magazine. The idea is to get a a good consistent load first and then tinker with the bullet seating length. What I'll do is make a dummy round with no powder or primer,stick a bullet just barely in the case and then I'll place the round in the chamber and close the bolt, letting the gun set the bullet in the case. It must be done easily so that the bullet doesn't stick itself to the rifling when extracting the case.

When I remove the bullet, I'll note wear the bullet is seated. If you are lucky, it will still fit in the magazine, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. If it does, I'll back if off about .005 and load several. I'll fire them for function and to make sure that there are no issues with the magazine feeding.

From there its more tinkering and fine tuning until I get a group that I'm satisfied with. Since some bullets are longer than others, sometimes experimenting with the different brands works as one will seem to work better than others.

Its all about trial and error, and what works and what doesn't and it takes time.

Right now, I am experimenting with a .308 Rock River with a 20 inch barrel that I got awhile back, its sports a 4x14 Tactical Leupold. First groups out of the box shooting Remington Tactical .308 saw groups that were right at 1 inch @100 yards which isn't bad really.

Still, I think it could do better. I have managed to shrink groups to a consistent 7/8" but I don't think its there yet, although it may all the scope is capable of.

Most scope cross-hairs will subtend 1 inch at 100 yards, so using a standard scope isn't really the way to get the small groups. A target scope using a target dot is the right way to do it. The Leupold's targets have a 1/8" dot at 100 yards, and this really helps to tighten up groups because you have a much better point of reference.

Sometimes,using cheap glass to achieve tight groups is a waste of time. Even expensive hunting scopes with the the hunting cross-hairs aren't a whole lot better and none can compare to the high magnification target scopes that are made just for that.

Its a trade off really. The hunting scopes are better for conditions encountered while hunting, were target scopes are virtually worthless. On the other hand, its the target scopes that are used when developing loads that will shoot tight groups. While one may tinker with loads that will get them tighter, eventually you'll be trying to do more than the scope is capable of.