MINI 14

[Brass Nazi]

I do not intend this thread to go south with MINI Jokes. I guess that makes me a hypocrite since I have posted some in the past.

A friend of mine has one and I do not remember if I personally shot it or not but I do know that it does not shoot worth a hoot. The friend has stated that fact many times. It is a fact that the MINI has a reputation of being a poor shooter. Is this reputation justified?

I really truly prefer the looks and the ergonomics of the MINI when compared to the AR or AK but I will not own a rifle that will not do an honest 2" off a good rest at 100 yards. I also would prefer a MINI 30 instead of a MINI 14.

Is it possible to buy a MINI that will do 2" without having to send it off to be accurized? What kind of accuracy can I expect if I were to buy one?

[eazylivin]

Not gone go South either.... The mini is a good lil gun, I ain't shot the mini 30 much. I can tell you straight as I can be. JJB got one that's had thousands of rounds put through it. In my time I can never remember one jam. I ain't gone sit here and say the accuracy is dead nuts at 100 yards either. It is dependable and accurrate for the most part. If I was on a fighting line I think it would be a damn good pick.

[Blackdog]

I can't speak about the newer Mini's. I bought my Mini 14 about 10 yrs ago, and it was my second centerfire rifle. I believe that the reputation for poor accuracy comes from those who (like me in the beginning) want to load up a 20 rnd mag and blast away, expecting that pencil barrel to maintain a POI instead of heating up and walking. I abused it until I came to the conclusion that accuracy sucked when shot it rapid fire (overheating). The bore was rough as well, so it copper fouled fast, until I lapped it. As with any rifle, a smooth, burnished bore will stay accurate longer between cleanings.
About a year after I bought it, I found the Mini 14 forum over at the Perfect Union site. There was a group of Mini devotees who had found some relatively inexpensive, but effective modifications that gave enough accuracy improvement to make it an interesting rifle. If anyone wants a more in-depth story on what I've done, let me know, but for sake of brevity, here's the list.

1. Trigger job (nearly every sporting rifle I own gets one)
2. Flash hider (this is for weight = barrel stabilizer. Mine is the Eagle brand)

Thesefirst two things alone cut my groups in half (from about 4" to 2")

I also installed a smaller gas port bushing and an op rod buffer. These mods reduce bolt velocity and now brass lands 5 feet away versus 15 ft. I can't explain the physics, but it seemed that felt recoil was reduced as well.

Lastly, I have developed a handload recipe that shrunk my groups even further. It shoots an honest 1.5" any day. I now have a very handy carbine that fits me, is comfortable to carry in the field, and hits what I'm lookin' at. I'm keepin' it.

http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo44/Blackdog_08/Mini.jpg


BD

[eazylivin]

Very very nice Blackdog !!!! I like it I like it alot!!!!

[nitesite]

With good factory magazines, my 187-Series Mini-14 shot Lake City M193 into 5"-6" at 100-yards with a 4.5X scope using the sling as my only offhand support. For many years I made that rifle my "home defense" long gun since I could not envision having to protect my family from assailants who were standing off beyond 100-yards. Mine was 100% reliable with the factory 30-rd magazine which JJB now has.

I shot my 64-gr Winchester Power Point loads from it, and with its 1:7 twist it could get the first 10 rounds into about 3" using the sling as my only support.

My complaint with my rifle is that I had to get the scope zeroed COLD and not mess with it thereafter. If I re-adjusted the optics with the barrel pretty warm, then there was no telling where the first cold shots the next time would impact.

But it was superbly reliable, and honestly I had no problem with the thought of grabbing it and chambering the first round if things turned scary around my place.

I would rather have it than the Ruger PC-9 or PC-40 which are pretty neat carbines in themselves.

[Blackdog]

My complaint with my rifle is that I had to get the scope zeroed COLD and not mess with it thereafter. If I re-adjusted the optics with the barrel pretty warm, then there was no telling where the first cold shots the next time would impact.


It took me a while to learn that lesson, but it's a good one to remember with any rifle (to varying degrees, of course). I spent alot of ammo chasing zero with a heating barrel. I now treat the Mini as a hunting rifle. Few shots are taken with a hot barrel at game . :-)

[nitesite]

Nice looking package you got there, Blackdog. Nice results from it, also!

[nitesite]

Blackdog,

Your scope looks very similar to the Bushnell Banner Dusk to Dawn 1.5-4.5x32 that my Mini-14 wore....

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/nitesite9/Mini-14twoweb.jpg

[Blackdog]

Zact copy I suspect.

[creophus]

BN, why is the 2" at 100 yards your benchmark? I ask because alot of times people settle on 1" at 100 yards. Seems like these numbers don't always indicate the type of shooting a person will be doing. This is the reason I'm asking about your particular use.

[CZ93X62]

The Ranch Rifle variants REALLY launch the brass, my four iron-sighted Mini-14s didn't/don't fling the empties like an HK-91.

Some other tricks to get Minis to shoot better.......

Use good bullets. My current example has 1-9" twist rate, and it dotes on Sierra 60 grain HP and 69 grain Matchkings. Open-based FMJs like M-193 slugs will double group sizes and throw fliers.

Use warmer loads. Mini-14s DO NOT like downloaded ammo.

Use Ball Powder. H-335, WW-748, and WC-844. It meters better, too.

This Mini I mention is my constant companion in the back-country. Three 30-round mags go on the truck seat in a GI mag pouch, and a fourth gets placed in the rifle's mag well/Condition 4, and the rifle rides behind the seat. It has been a source of genuine comfort on a couple occasions. It will shoot minute-of-asshat to 400 yards.

[Blackdog]

Mine does not like the heavier bullets. My accuracy load is a 40 gr Blitzking over 25.8 gr of Reloader 10X, which is at the upper end of the load data. Pretty much a varmint round. Those BK's open up nicely at 3600 fps. :yikes:

[Brass Nazi]

BN, why is the 2" at 100 yards your benchmark? I ask because alot of times people settle on 1" at 100 yards. Seems like these numbers don't always indicate the type of shooting a person will be doing. This is the reason I'm asking about your particular use.

It has been my experience that most factory bolt guns shoot 1.25-1.5" groups at 100 from a decent rest (bags) and will do around an inch or even less with a well developed handload when fired from a very solid rest such as a lead sled. Most shooters can only manage 3" groups or so offhand on a good day.

To me less than 2" from a good rest is acceptable. Most of my guns fire closer to 1" and some even shoot less than 1". Don't get me wrong I WANT all the guns to shoot less than 1" but the reality is that every gun that is made will not do it. Even a gun that is the same model/caliber will shoot different. Some can shoot, some can't. I was simply stating that anything more than 2" from a good rest is unacceptable IMO.



Nitesite,

3" offhand is good in my opinion.

[Brass Nazi]

Anyone got any experience with the 30?

Is it safe to say that the average MINI is a 2" gun? 2.5"? 1.5"?

[creophus]

Gotcha. That's a wise way of looking at it

[MONTEGOD7SS]

I have always heard that a MINI-30 is more accurate than a MINI-14. No idea why, but I've heard it from numerous people that were owners of each. It goes against common sense that surplus 7.62x39 would outshoot a good .223 handload, but it's just what I've been told.

[Blackdog]

I have always heard that a MINI-30 is more accurate than a MINI-14. No idea why, but I've heard it from numerous people that were owners of each. It goes against common sense that surplus 7.62x39 would outshoot a good .223 handload, but it's just what I've been told.


I object, your Honor. Hearsay........

[MONTEGOD7SS]

Got that right. I will have a MINI right after there ain't any other rifle left on this whole planet to own. Give me one, I'll sell it and buy something that 4" @ 100yrd isn't "normal."

http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq56/montegod7ss/targetha5.jpg

[jawjaboy]

I object, your Honor. Hearsay........

I agree BD. I don't put any stock in what most posters offer up over hearsay. Especially from those posters who continually talk trash about a piece they know nothing/little about.

One here speaks of his bolt rifles and appears to compare thier accuracy results with that of a Mini. :confused: Last time I checked, my Mini 14 and 30 were not bolt guns with 20, 22, or 24 inch tapered barrels.

But, they continue to egg it along. I guess they enjoy it. More power to 'em.

Sounds like a stuck record to me.
.

[creophus]

I've been guilty of harassing Mini owners. I have no hands on experience with them. Even though I like joining in on the jokes, all kidding aside they appear to be very well made and rugged weapons.

A fellow that I work with has dozens of guns and LOVES his mini. That speaks volumes to me. If one were to fall in my lap, I'd grab it in a heartbeat. Any weapon that's safe and reliable is a good weapon. It doesn't have to be sub MOA to protect my family.

[Steel Talon]

Love my mini's with as many children as Lady Steel and I have we tend to have multiple copies of thangs.lol.

.223 Minis will feed everything reliably

Keep this in mind with your mini if you can consitently hit a paper plate to 100yards you there is not a thing wrong with it. Thats miinute of deer! If you decide to fine tune on the cheap DIY a large grapefruit from 50 to 150 yards is easy to get.

Remember multiple rapid shoots will open groups up

This is what I've done to my mini's (ranch models)
*Load development is critical, find what Bullet weight and brand it likes
*Fixed 4 or 6 power scope. Minis can be very hard on scopes since they are not a "AR" type the multi power scopes are a waste.
*Send off fr a good trigger job 3lbs no creep
*Pin Bed the action.
*Add a masen break to it under 25.00 requires no special tools locks in placve with a roll pin
*small slim barrels equal hellacious harmonic whip . Work to dampen that whip (find the sweet spot) and your groups will shrink.
*Those "limb savers" work very well and are affordable they are "rubber boots" that you can slide onto the barrel
*There is a after blue steel market kit for 100-150 that you clamp up onto the barrel that has alot of believers. Makes your mini look even better with it in place. I'll need to research the name of it I'll edit it in later when I find it.
*Add a choate recoil pad to it It will give you another inch in length (mo betta eye relief) for your wooden version. Hougue overmolded stocks give you longer relief also
*Bi-pods are a waste on the mini however, its an easy mod to insatll "the nut" into the fore end.

Peace
ST~

[craig110]

I've been guilty of harassing Mini owners. I have no hands on experience with them. Even though I like joining in on the jokes, all kidding aside they appear to be very well made and rugged weapons.

A fellow that I work with has dozens of guns and LOVES his mini. That speaks volumes to me. If one were to fall in my lap, I'd grab it in a heartbeat. Any weapon that's safe and reliable is a good weapon. It doesn't have to be sub MOA to protect my family.

:iagree: For all the kidding around Mini-14s, if they serve the needs of the shooter, what more can be asked? (As if my AK-variant qualifies me to kid someone about a basic rifle's accuracy anyway. :wink5:)

[creophus]

(As if my AK-variant qualifies me to kid someone about a basic rifle's accuracy anyway. :wink5:)
I thought the exact same thing about my AK when I typed my previous message. I'd hate to put it up next to a mini in an accuracy contest. I'd be embarrased.

[Brass Nazi]

Does anyone here handload for the 7.62X39? And more precisely has anyone worked up a load for the mini 30?

I do not use crappy surplus ammunition for ANY gun that I own. I might use the 7.5X55 Swiss surplus if it was not so expensive. Because of it's cost I handload it as well.

It appears from the above posts that a Mini 14 shooting factory ammunition is a 3-4" rifles but with a little bit of load development my 2" mandate my be met. Is this an accurate statement?

The above posts conerning AKs have me thinking. If the Mini shoots better than an AK why does the MINI have such a poor reputation when the AK has a stellar reputation as a fighting gun? Everybody seems to have some love for the pot metal and plywood AK that was designed by a communist while at the same time trashing an American designed and manafactured rifle that may be capable of performing better.

[CZ93X62]

I thought the exact same thing about my AK when I typed my previous message. I'd hate to put it up next to a mini in an accuracy contest. I'd be embarrased.

EXCELLENT point, Creo and Craig. I've taken guff from AK-47 lovers over my Mini's supposed inaccuracy more than a little, and I love the irony of that position.

BN, I think 2" at 100 yards is a pretty reasonable expectation for a Mini-14 with bullets it prefers. No, that isn't the magical gunrag minimum dispersion rate of 1" at 100 yards. But let's look at what 2" really means at 100 yards--that is a one inch radial dispersion from centered point of aim. Also, we "automatically" presume that 1" at 100 yards equals 2" at 200/3" at 300 et seq. NOT ALWAYS. Some bullets expand those distributions more widely, others "go to sleep" as they continue downrange, stabilizing in flight and scoring relatively better at longer ranges than at distances closer to the muzzle. I've seen this tendency in my present Mini-14 on paper at 200 and 300 yards with the 69 grain Matchkings, and it is a very consistent trend. Also, I have hit many more coyotes and jackrabbits at 200-300 yards than I have missed with that rifle, so SOMETHING is going on that's positive downrange.

[craig110]

The above posts conerning AKs have me thinking. If the Mini shoots better than an AK why does the MINI have such a poor reputation when the AK has a stellar reputation as a fighting gun? Everybody seems to have some love for the pot metal and plywood AK that was designed by a communist while at the same time trashing an American designed and manafactured rifle that may be capable of performing better.

Price and availability. (Not even considering that I'm not sure if the Mini-14 can even be obtained in a full-auto version.) AKs are cheap, rugged, easy to build with minimal tools or knowledge and are plenty accurate enough for basic fighting (i.e. non-sniping). That said, let me turn your question around: If someone was outfitting several thousand people with guns, why wouldn't they buy the AK? That leads to the AK having the "fighting gun" reputation since people see it on the news.

Beyond that, in the domestic market the problem is likely one of marketing. The Mini-14 looks like its bigger brother so one expects good accuracy but doesn't get it. The AK looks like and has a reputation for not being accurate and so the buyer's expectations are met. Result? One set of people disappointed by a potentially superior product with the other set perfectly happy with what they have.

Incidentally, I was just mentioning to someone a few days ago that I thought it was a shame that Kalashnikov designed the AK in a communist country. If he had designed the exact same thing in a capitalist society he'd probably be a very wealthy man.

[creophus]

When handling the AK, and then firing it you're not surprised. It's crude on the outside and fires in a crude manner as well.

The mini(s) are better crafted and more expensive. I THINK it doesn't perform as accurately as one would think.

Again though, if the mini is meant to be a ranch rifle, it should do that wit aplomb.

[Fatdaddy]

Sometimes inaccuracy makes up for poor shooting conditions. The safest place on a target is sometimes the center when shooting without a rest. This is why Ruger engineered the inaccuracy into the Mini, to compensate.:wink5:

[MakeMineaP99]

Craig, the Mini can be had in select fire, Ruger calls it the AC 556. You'll see them on Subguns every so often, sell for about $6-7k for a transferable. I can't tell you for sure if Ruger continued to make them after the 86 cut off for PDs. They were originally made for PDs and the ones on the transferable market came out of PDs over the years.

[Bush Pilot]

Does anyone know if the mini-14 was ever issued by any country to their military? I see the guards carrying them on the prison shows on TV, prolly doesn't have to be terribly accurate for their purposes.

[jawjaboy]

Does anyone know if the mini-14 was ever issued by any country to their military?

Sure have. Read them in the news and saw them on TV, FWIW.

I will say this and sleep good tonight about what I say here, my opinion only....if some of my fellow men had been carrying a reliable actioned rifle in the late 60's, early '70's...we would have a lot more bretheren here with us tonight.

No more, no less.
.

[creophus]

Sure have. Read them in the news and saw them on TV, FWIW.

I will say this and sleep good tonight about what I say here, my opinion only....if some of my fellow men had been carrying a reliable actioned rifle in the late 60's, early '70's...we would have a lot more bretheren here with us tonight.

No more, no less.
.
Mercy. :patriot:

[BoltNut]

...Does anyone here handload for the 7.62X39? And more precisely has anyone worked up a load for the mini 30?...
Hopefully, that will be one of my MOST COMMON reloads, since I want to be able to shoot my BELOVED SKS a lot more frequently (cheaper) than I do now...when I shoot for killing animals, then I run some expensive factory stuff (Black Hills and Federal Premium, I think) and I don't even flinch about it being accurate enough...especially freehand with sweat, adreneline and critters runnin' around.

BTW, that's the same way I'd feel about a MINI-14...I love the looks, and I can live with the IN-accuracy! :)

[Fatdaddy]

http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv297/lowangz/223.jpg

[jawjaboy]

Man you got a big toe. :biggrinjester:

[Steviewonder1]

Mine has a red dot scope and red laser on it with a Butler Creek folding stock. It will do 3 inch groups at 100 yards. Lemme see here, that is center of and to the left and right of the heart. Got it, more than enough accurate to kill a zombie.....

[Fatdaddy]

Man you got a big toe. :biggrinjester:

Gots feet like Shrek.:)

[BigDog[RE]]

I pity the sucka that makes fun of my mini 14...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/08/01/ateam_6.jpg

[Boondockin]

Where's Merdock :confused:

[myg30]

Do any of you have trouble with the brass hitting the scope adjustment knob and bouncing off the rear of the frame putting a dent in your brass ??


Mike

[Steel Talon]

Mike,

No not that problem,I did change the port on my Ranch model. When I shoot from the bench I nornally drape a shop towel over my mini to deflect the brass.

ST~